Stuck in China with no hydroponic nutrient

[hydrogrido]

Hi tuff
Thanks for the info, I also checked in alibaba, but i didn't find it.
This product look good, I will try to ask sample to the factory .
Probably this product mixed with another product which contain macronutrient
Can be ok.
The only way is to try it.
I will let you know.

thanks
Hydro

[Luches]

The product shown at Alibaba.com is a micro nutrient, so to speak trace element mix only. It's sold in 200 Liter barrels for export only, it's kinda useless for your purpose. I wouldn't give anything about the "bio" label either.

What you brothers in China need is a complete list of required ingredients of makro and micro nutrients. (the correct and graphically displayed chemical formula) and most importantly some decent recipes. You also need an accurate scale and some kitchen tools. Best would be to have analyses of the tap water you will use, in order to know about Magnesium, Chloride and Calcium to add to your nutrients. In other words, nutrients that are either made for soft or hard water. This sounds futile but is in fact very important in case you may have high mineral content in your tap water, versus very low mineral content.

Mixing nutrients from water soluble agricultural Fertilizers, may be an alternative. But that's tricky as well as you need to realy know your chemical maths to do it accurately and not completely mess it up.

Making nutrient from scratch, using standard (and easily available) industrial raw materials isn't easy either. It needs good methodology and clear explanations from an experienced and expert person, that does this job on a regular basis. Any amateur tips and hints (even if they come from the bottom of their heart) might misguide you or give you wrong ideas.

There are no 10 different ways of making adequate nutrients from scrtch, there is only one, with slight variations and a different handling, though.

I live in Thailand and had the same problem. But I went to a small chemistry retail shop and found all the ingredients at once. Most provide from China, only some are produced here. I knew exactly what I was looking for and had the correct chemical formula of every of the about 12 ingredients that are needed, though. I messed up my first batch, but my second was fine. I am doing this for about 2 years now every 3-4 weeks, to restock my concentrates. It takes me about 1 hour to make 2 gallons (8 Liters) of concentrate, which is sufficient for 1400-1500 Liters of final nutrient solution. I run some 10 sets with tomatoes, peppers, pumpkins and gourds, herbs, etc.

Tell me what you plan to do and are up to, and I'll help you as good as I can. I can't start a complete online course here, though... you understand that, do you?

[shadoh6]

I've temporarily solved my problem by bringing back some General Hydroponics powdered nutrients from a recent visit, but I imagine this will only get me by for a growing season or two, and of course this doesn't help anybody else.

I am in the pre-liminary stages of seeking a long-term option by importing nutrients in greater quantities or finding a customized local option, and selling it, so if anybody is interested in buying, then contact me and I will keep you updated on whether or not I pursue this option.

shadoh6 at yahoo dot com

[Luches]

Well, actually the raw materials needed to mix nutrient are mostly produced in China. Two third of the components and materials I use to make my nutrients are imported from China, the rest is manufactured in Thailand.

Not sure about where General hydroponics gets most of it's material, but two chinese fertilizer producer where among the ten most successful enterprises of 2009, first was Blueberry btw. It's most likely that major US nutrient producers import at least parts of the used raw materials from China.

So what you are doing is importing back to China from the US, what has been exported earlier from there

There is a song here in Thailand, that goes about the T-shirts from numerous brand names, that are machine-sewn, at some factory by Thai workers. They get shipped to US or Europe and come back to some local mall a few month later. Then some other Thai people (or even the very same workers) buy the very same T-shirts "back" for more than ten times the price they were sold by the Thai manufacturer.

Did you know that 1kg of Calcium Nitrate (wich is a major part of any nutrient solution) is only worth 1 USD, and when sold in 50 kg packs only 35 ct. Magnesium suphate, annother major component only worth half the price of calcium nitrate? In China all products needed should even be much cheaper.

What could possibly preventing you from buying the raw materials in China, mixing your own nutrients there and getting rich by selling it!?

[kakaze]

I used to live in China as well, and the difficulty in finding certain items that I took for granted in the states was very annoying!

As far as hydroponic nutrients go, maybe I can help.

Plants need 6 macronutrients. These are Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K), Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg) and Sulfur (S). The "NPK" that you see on the fertilizer bags stands for "Nitrogen - Phosphorus - Potassium". Even if it were water-solubal, you'd probably still need to add calcium, magnesium, and sulpher.

In addition to the above, plants also need a small amount of Iron (Fe), Boron (B), Manganese (Mn), Zinc (Zn), Copper (Cu), Molybdenum (Mo) and Chlorine (Cl).

The simplest home-made hydroponic nutrient solution that I've heard of is a compost tea made out of composted chicken manure. I don't know about the availability of composted chicken manure in China & Hong Kong, but I do know that chickens are popular there, so it's possible. If you make a chicken compost tea, you might want to add nitrogen and phosphorus. Some plants, such as tomatoes and strawberries, need a lot of nitrogen, and phosphorus is important for any flowering/fruiting plant.

On a side note; most soil fertilizers use Urea and Sulfate of Ammonia as sources of nitrogen. These do not work well in hydroponics because they need bacteria to break them down before plants can absorb them. Instead, you should use Ammonium Sulfate or Sodium Nitrate.

The recipes that I've found for home-made solutions are:

Potassium Nitrate 9 oz (255 grams) - Also called Saltpeter
Calcium Sulphate 7 oz (198 grams) - Plaster of Paris
Magnesium Sulphate 6 oz (170 grams) - Epsom Salts
Monocalcium Phosphate 4 oz (113 grams)
Ammonium Sulfate 1.5 oz (43 grams) - Principle source of Nitrogen in recipe
Iron Sulphate - Use a pinch only; maybe 1/2 t

Grind each chemical up and mix together well. Use 1 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Another recipe is:

Sodium Nitrate 12.5 oz (355 grams) - Nitrogen
Potassium Sulphate 4 oz (113 grams) - Potassium, Sulphur
Super Phosphate 5 oz (142 grams) - Phosphate, Calcium
Magnesium Sulphate 3.5 oz (100 grams) - Magnesium, Sulphur
Iron Sulphate – 1 pinch (2 grams) - Iron

Once again, use 1 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Here is another recipe solely for trace elements:

Manganese Sulphate 1 t
Boric Acid powder 1 t
Zinc Sulphate 0.5 t
Copper Sulphate 0.5 t

These can all be found in mineral vitamins at a health store.

When needed add 0.5 tsp to 1 quart water and mix well. Add 1 liquid oz of this solution to 3 gallons of your plant nutrients solution from above. This solution will not keep past one day, so use the remainder to water any "in-soil" plants you may have around.

I have not tried any of these recipes yet, so I have no idea how well they work. If you do try one, please let me know!

Hope that helps!

[tufekoa]

Hi luche, Hi kakaze,

Thanks for your previous answers they have put me on the right track and gave a bit of hope.
I am growing tomatoes with children in china.
We are using NPK soil nutrients with an obscure micronutrient solution.(no details on the quantity of iron zinc borum)
20-20-20 vegetive and 10-30-20 flower.
The results are variable but mostly tremendous veg groth with little production and premature plant casualties.(yellow from the tip of the the leaves and generally a drying up of plants)
It like if the plants can not retain the water properly in the flower stage.
More over the flowering stage takes ages and the plant just grow bigger.

Any way I was wondering if kakaze your solution would work for tomatoes?
Luche globalization is strange for sure: many articles made here are never sold here. I'm interested in a formula that i could submit to the city chemist.

Bests,

Tuff

Ps : I have purchased some general hydroponics during a trip that I am trying out on a small batch.
They seem okay but it's ridiculously expensive for our larger setting.

[kakaze]

Like I said, I've not tried either of the recipes yet. In fact, I'm just getting into hydroponics myself, so anything anyone here says that contradicts me is probably more correct.

According to this site:

Reasons Why Tomato Plants Leaves Turn Yellow

tomato plants yellow due to a lack of nitrogen, sunshine, or water. Pests & fungus can also cause yellowing. Too much nitrogen usually gives abundant foliage growth, but poor fruiting. Check to make sure they're getting enough water and try giving them a bit less nitrogen and a bit more phosphorus (if you can't find Phosphorus, grind up some eggshells and bake them until they just start turning brown. eggshells contain about 1% nitrogen, about 0.5% phosphoric acid.

If they're not getting enough sun, you may want to supliment them with a flourescent light (if you can't find one for plants, get one that says "cool white"; it's got more blue in it, which is what plants need to grow). You could also try an LED growlight. Here's a company in Hong Kong that sells them for a good price (no, I'm not affiliated):

Besthongkong - Eastern LED Source Shop: Loose LED, High Power LED, Car Auto LED, LED Light Bulbs, LED Strips, LED Flashlight, LED Module LED Growing Lights

If you do try the chicken manure compost tea, you may have trouble with clogging in an aerophonic system. If it were me, I'd grow the plants in aquarium gravel (you should be able to find one of those "wet markets" that sells pets & pet supplies pretty easily) with a drip-feed system.

Something else to keep in mind; are your tomatoes all female, or all male? If they're mixed, do they get any kind of breeze blowing past them to spread pollen? No pollen = no fruit.