Root color

[OChydro]

I growing in a GH Aero unit. The roots start of white but when I check them 2-3 weeks later after they are developed and in the water at the bottom they are brown. The plant seems healthy, is this normal for the roots?

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by OChydro

I growing in a GH Aero unit. The roots start of white but when I check them 2-3 weeks later after they are developed and in the water at the bottom they are brown. The plant seems healthy, is this normal for the roots?

I don't know what plants you are growing, but to the best of my knowledge there are no plants that should normally have brown roots. I had a problem with the roots of my strawberry plants turning brown last summer also (see attached pictures). I E-mailed General Hydroponics (tech@genhydro.com) the pictures and they said it looked like the nutrient solution was two warm. It should be between 68 and 72 degrees consistently. I don't know for sure that this is your problem, but it's the first thing I would look at.

My strawberry plants also looked healthy but were not growing as fast as they were. I started adding ice to the nutrient solution to cool it down and the roots started growing back white and healthy again in about a week (also in attached pictures). Another side affect is the flowers will start to turn yellow and fall off. This is a survival instinct by the plant because it takes more energy to produce the fruit.

[OChydro]

Thanks for your reply. Temperature was a big problem this past summer but not now. My brown is different than your brown. I'll post a pic tomorrow.
Art

[GpsFrontier]

OK, if nutrient temp is not an issue, I would suspect the nutrients themselves.

1. What type of nutrients are you using?
2. Is the system a N.F.T.system?
3. How often do you change the nutrients?
4. Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients?
5. Do you check the pH every day, and what is the pH level?
6. What plants are you growing?
7. How old are the plants?
8. Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts?
9. Is there a lot of algae growing in the system?

[OChydro]

Thanks for your detailed reply, I had to get pic's also.

OK, if nutrient temp is not an issue, I would suspect the nutrients themselves.

1. What type of nutrients are you using? Gen Hydro dry grow only
2. Is the system a N.F.T.system? GH aeroponic 36
3. How often do you change the nutrients? Every 2-3 weeks, 45 gal in system.
4. Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? No, should I, I have air pumps laying around.
5. Do you check the pH every day, and what is the pH level? Yes, pH 6.5 although it may range from 6 to 7. The EC of the solution is 1.6, 1120 ppm (Hanna 9813-6 meter calibrated regularly for pH and EC).
6. What plants are you growing?Lettace, broccoli, brussel sprouts, basil, arugula
7. How old are the plants? The brown one in the picture is old arugula, I think the problem is that it is old and the roots were in water that was too deep. In the pic of the newer plant the roots are white.
8. Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? No I haven't. I assume this doesn't apply to quick lettace crops but would be a good thing for the brussel sprouts and broccoli and artichoke over their 60-90 day growing period. How often should I flush the system and how many gallons should I make and how long should I run it before I drain it and mix up another 50 gallon nutrient solution as the crops mature?
9. Is there a lot of algae growing in the system?No

I just added an aquarium heater to the solution to keep the temp at 70 degrees, is this an ideal temp. I am in So. Calif.

This has turned into a big question, thanks so much for your help!
Art

I tried to attach jpegs, I couldn't tell if they made it as I composed this. I attached them through "Attach Files" and hit the upload button.

[OChydro]

Trying pics again, smaller file size. Root photos (2) and 3 general of unit

[OChydro]

Bigger Pic's

[GpsFrontier]

Gen Hydro dry grow only

I am not exactly familiar with GH's line of dry nutrients but I only found one that they carry (FLORAMATO DRY)

GH aeroponic 36

I think this is what you have AeroFlo 36 Aeroponic System If it is a true aeroponic system, it uses misters/emitters to spray the roots. This could be a source of problems also, like uneven watering as the misters/emitters can clog. Also because the roots are hanging in mid air they are much more susceptible to drying out if not watered frequently.

Every 2-3 weeks, 45 gal in system

36 plants in the system and 45 gallons feeding them, I don't think 2-3 weeks would be a problem. Though if it is a true aeroponic system, it should be able to run with less than half that in the reservoir just fine. My concern with letting it go 3 weeks between changes here is it gives time for unwanted things like algae to grow, both in the reservoir and growing chambers. It is kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but the brown looks to be something that is covering the roots instead of the roots themselves. As I look at the picture of the basket with the long strand of brown roots, it looks like the basket itself is the same color of brown, leading me to believe it's something like a brown algae that is covering all of it.

Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? No, should I, I have air pumps laying around.

Yes, it's a good idea to use them. It does two things, first as the bubbles rise to the top of the nutrient solution it picks up oxygen molecules from the bubbles. Second it keeps the water moving (like a flowing stream) and inhibits algae growth. You may also want to consider using Hydrogen Peroxide added to the solution. Hydrogen Peroxide is nothing more than purified water with added oxygen molecules, though you don't want to use more than 1 teaspoon of 3% per gallon of water.

Hydrogen Peroxide also kills bacteria in the water (good and bad ones) but as long as you don't use too much it can be beneficial. I use about half a teaspoon per gallon every week myself. Some people say that some hydrogen peroxides like the kind found in the pharmacy has stabilizers in it, and suggest that you use a 35% hydrogen peroxide instead. But my experience is to just read the label for the active and inactive ingredients and if it has anything more than Hydrogen Peroxide for the active ingredients and purified water for the inactive ingredients don't use it. I just use the 3% from Wal-mart myself. If you can find the 35% it will be 10 times the price but in effect you use 10 times less. I can give you a link to a chart if you need it.

Yes, pH 6.5 although it may range from 6 to 7.

I haven't checked the requirements for your plants but this might be a little high. The top end for broccoli is generally 6.5, though growing conditions play a part in the plants individual requirements, even for the same plant. I personally don't have a EC/PPM or a TDS meter but here is a link to charts for Plant Requirements for Fruit, Vegetables, Herbs and Flowers.

How old are the plants? The brown one in the picture is old arugula, I think the problem is that it is old and the roots were in water that was too deep.

This has me a bit confused because if the roots are sitting in water it is not a true areoponic system. It might be a combination aeroponic system and another type. But if the roots are sitting in water, the water needs to be moving. Either by a air pump directly at the roots (like a Water Culture Systems) or a water pump that continusly keeps the water flowing (like a N.F.T. type system)

Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? No I haven't.

I don't think that this would directly cause the problem, but the accumulated fertilizer salts can build up on the roots and growing medium and cause a nutrient imbalance. FLORA KLEEN Salt Clearing Solution

How often should I flush the system

They recommend at every nutrient change with a stronger solution as the plants mature.

and how many gallons should I make and how long should I run it

Well What I do is, when it's time to change nutrients, I dump the old nutrients. Take apart the pump and thoroughly clean it. Then clean the reservoir with soap and water and rinse it thoroughly. Put it all back together again, fill the system with the minimum amount of water (just water) it takes to run the system and not run the pump dry. Then add 1-2 teaspoons of FloraKleen per gallon, and let run for about 2 continuous hours. Then dump it out, rinse the reservoir and fill with fresh nutrients. This will also help keep the misters/emitters from building up the salts and clogging in an aeroponic system.

I just added an aquarium heater to the solution to keep the temp at 70 degrees, is this an ideal temp.

Yes, that's just fine if that is the actual temp of the nutrients, it's right in the middle of 68-72 degrees. I need to get some aquarium heaters also because the night time temps are getting into the upper 40's now. The only aquarium heaters I have found that go that low are the ones with an adjustable thermostat, and run about $20. The cheaper ones have a fixed temp of 78 degrees and run about $15. I have 3 hydro systems running right now, with more planed. That can get quite expensive, so I am looking at other alternatives also.

I am no expert, but if it's some kind of brown algae growing on the roots like I suspect, I would take out all the plants and gently wash them off best as I could. Then scrub the growing chambers out with soap and water and rinse. Then flush the pump hose and clean the pump. Scrub the reservoir with soap and water rinse thoroughly. Put it all back together and fill with just plain water and run 20 min (2-3 times). Then flush with FloraKleen if you have it, if not don't wait to clean the system. Then dump and replace with fresh nutrients. Because You are using General Hydroponics nutrients and hydro system, you can also e-mail there tech support with the pictures at: tech@genhydro.com or call them at (1-800-374-9376) or 1-707-824-9376.

[OChydro]

Quote:
Gen Hydro dry grow only
I am not exactly familiar with GH's line of dry nutrients but I only found one that they carry (FLORAMATO DRY)
IT IS CALLED MAXIGROW

Quote:
GH aeroponic 36
I think this is what you have AeroFlo 36 Aeroponic System If it is a true aeroponic system, it uses misters/emitters to spray the roots. This could be a source of problems also, like uneven watering as the misters/emitters can clog. Also because the roots are hanging in mid air they are much more susceptible to drying out if not watered frequently.
IT IS A HYBRID SYSTEM. THERE IS A DRAIN TUBE YOU PULL UP INSIDE THE CHAMBER IN THE BEGINNING TO KEEP THE ROOTS WET INSIDE THEIR BASKET FILLED WITH HYDROTON. WHEN THE ROOTS START COMING THROUGH THE BASKET YOU PUSH THE TUBE DOWN TO LOWER THE WATER LEVEL AND THE LASER CUT LINE FUNCTIONS MORE AS A MISTER. NOW THAT I HAVE HAD THE SYSTEM FOR A WHILE AND HAVE OBSERVED IT, IT REALLY DOESN'T SPRAY VERY WELL ESPECIALLY AT THE END OF EACH CHAMBER. I WOULD BE BETTER OFF TO FIGURE HOW TO PUNCH A HOLE IN THE LASER CUT LINE AND TRY INSTALLING AN EMITTER/MISTER. THE RESULT WOULD BE FAR SUPERIOR. DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE EMITTER/MISTER?
Quote:
Every 2-3 weeks, 45 gal in system
36 plants in the system and 45 gallons feeding them, I don't think 2-3 weeks would be a problem. Though if it is a true aeroponic system, it should be able to run with less than half that in the reservoir just fine. My concern with letting it go 3 weeks between changes here is it gives time for unwanted things like algae to grow, both in the reservoir and growing chambers. It is kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but the brown looks to be something that is covering the roots instead of the roots themselves. As I look at the picture of the basket with the long strand of brown roots, it looks like the basket itself is the same color of brown, leading me to believe it's something like a brown algae that is covering all of it.
CHECKED THE BASKET FOR ALGAE AND IT IS NOT. I THINK IT WAS JUST ROOTS THAT WERE WATER EXPOSED FOR TOO LONG. OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT COLOR ARE THE ROOTS IN AN NFT SYSTEM SINCE PART OF THEM ARE IN WATER ALL THEY TIME?
Quote:
Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? No, should I, I have air pumps laying around.
Yes, it's a good idea to use them. It does two things, first as the bubbles rise to the top of the nutrient solution it picks up oxygen molecules from the bubbles. Second it keeps the water moving (like a flowing stream) and inhibits algae growth. You may also want to consider using Hydrogen Peroxide added to the solution. Hydrogen Peroxide is nothing more than purified water with added oxygen molecules, though you don't want to use more than 1 teaspoon of 3% per gallon of water.
I WILL ADD THE AIR STONES. HOW MANY DOES ONE NEED? ARE THEY THE SMALL ONES OR THE LONG KIND (8 IN+). HOW MANY SHOULD I HAVE FOR THE SUMMER TIME?

Hydrogen Peroxide also kills bacteria in the water (good and bad ones) but as long as you don't use too much it can be beneficial. I use about half a teaspoon per gallon every week myself. Some people say that some hydrogen peroxides like the kind found in the pharmacy has stabilizers in it, and suggest that you use a 35% hydrogen peroxide instead. But my experience is to just read the label for the active and inactive ingredients and if it has anything more than Hydrogen Peroxide for the active ingredients and purified water for the inactive ingredients don't use it. I just use the 3% from Wal-mart myself. If you can find the 35% it will be 10 times the price but in effect you use 10 times less. I can give you a link to a chart if you need it.
I AM USING BOTANICARE PUREBLEND PRO IN MY SECOND SYSTEM AND THEY SAY NOT TO USE H2O2 AS IT WILL KILL BENEFICIALS. I WILL CONTACT GENHYDRO REGARDING ITS USE WITH ITS MAXIGRO. I AM ALSO USING SM 90 IN BOTH SYSTEMS. DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS PRODUCT?
Quote:
Yes, pH 6.5 although it may range from 6 to 7.
I haven't checked the requirements for your plants but this might be a little high. The top end for broccoli is generally 6.5, though growing conditions play a part in the plants individual requirements, even for the same plant. I personally don't have a EC/PPM or a TDS meter but here is a link to charts for Plant Requirements for Fruit, Vegetables, Herbs and Flowers.
Quote:
How old are the plants? The brown one in the picture is old arugula, I think the problem is that it is old and the roots were in water that was too deep.
This has me a bit confused because if the roots are sitting in water it is not a true areoponic system. It might be a combination aeroponic system and another type. But if the roots are sitting in water, the water needs to be moving. Either by a air pump directly at the roots (like a Water Culture Systems) or a water pump that continusly keeps the water flowing (like a N.F.T. type system)
IT IS SORT OF A HYDRID SYSTEM AND THE WATER IS CONSTANTLY MOVING.
Quote:
Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? No I haven't.
I don't think that this would directly cause the problem, but the accumulated fertilizer salts can build up on the roots and growing medium and cause a nutrient imbalance. FLORA KLEEN Salt Clearing Solution
Quote:
How often should I flush the system
They recommend at every nutrient change with a stronger solution as the plants mature.
Quote:
and how many gallons should I make and how long should I run it
Well What I do is, when it's time to change nutrients, I dump the old nutrients. Take apart the pump and thoroughly clean it. Then clean the reservoir with soap and water and rinse it thoroughly. Put it all back together again, fill the system with the minimum amount of water (just water) it takes to run the system and not run the pump dry. Then add 1-2 teaspoons of FloraKleen per gallon, and let run for about 2 continuous hours. Then dump it out, rinse the reservoir and fill with fresh nutrients. This will also help keep the misters/emitters from building up the salts and clogging in an aeroponic system.
THE SM 90 IS SUPPOSE TO HELP WITH BREAKING SURFACE TENSION AND HELPING TO KEEP EMITTERS CLEAN. THE FLORA KLEEN IS DESIGNED FOR THE SALT BUILDUP AS YOU SAID SO I WILL START USING IT, THANKS.
Quote:
I just added an aquarium heater to the solution to keep the temp at 70 degrees, is this an ideal temp.
Yes, that's just fine if that is the actual temp of the nutrients, it's right in the middle of 68-72 degrees. I need to get some aquarium heaters also because the night time temps are getting into the upper 40's now. The only aquarium heaters I have found that go that low are the ones with an adjustable thermostat, and run about $20. The cheaper ones have a fixed temp of 78 degrees and run about $15. I have 3 hydro systems running right now, with more planed. That can get quite expensive, so I am looking at other alternatives also.
I BOUGHT MY HEATER AT THE PET STORE. $34 FOR ONE WITH A WIDE RANGE OF ADJUSTABILITY, IT IS RATED AT 300 WATTS. LIKE YOU SAID THOUGH IT DOES COST MONEY TO RUN THEM. IT YOU COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATE SOURCE LET ME KNOW.

I am no expert, but if it's some kind of brown algae growing on the roots like I suspect, I would take out all the plants and gently wash them off best as I could. Then scrub the growing chambers out with soap and water and rinse. Then flush the pump hose and clean the pump. Scrub the reservoir with soap and water rinse thoroughly. Put it all back together and fill with just plain water and run 20 min (2-3 times). Then flush with FloraKleen if you have it, if not don't wait to clean the system. Then dump and replace with fresh nutrients. Because You are using General Hydroponics nutrients and hydro system, you can also e-mail there tech support with the pictures at: tech@genhydro.com or call them at (1-800-374-9376) or 1-707-824-9376.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, IT IS APPRECIATED!! I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED. ART

[GpsFrontier]

DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE EMITTER/MISTER?

Not really, because I am not familiar with that tubing. I am planing to experiment with irrigation tubing. The type found at your local hardware store. Though I am not sure about the misters/emitters that they sell because as I understand it, the water droplets should be a certain size for aeroponics. The emitters/misters that are sold at Hydroponic stores are designed best for aeroponics, but I don't know if they will work well with the irrigation tubing yet. I do plan on doing some testing with both type of emitters/misters and comparing the results, but have not done so yet. The best I can suggest right now is to start over with new tubing and emitters/misters from the hydro shop. For a drip system the irrigation tubing at the hardware works fine and there is no need for emitters in a drip system. Just poke the holes where you need them. They also have laser cut tubing at the hardware store but I don't know if it is exactly the same thing as what's at the hydro store.

CHECKED THE BASKET FOR ALGAE AND IT IS NOT. I THINK IT WAS JUST ROOTS THAT WERE WATER EXPOSED FOR TOO LONG. OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT COLOR ARE THE ROOTS IN AN NFT SYSTEM SINCE PART OF THEM ARE IN WATER ALL THEY TIME?

That,s strange, because the top rim of the baskets are a green color but the part that is below in the growing chamber is the same brown as the roots. Maybe what I am seeing is the roots covering the basket and looking that way. The roots of any healthy plant should be white no matter what type of system it's in. I asked what type of system it was in because I was hoping to find a cause for the problem. In an N.F.T. (Nutreint Film Technique) The roots hang in a continuously flowing film of nutrients and use the roots as a wick to suck the water/nutrients up to the plants. Not all plants do well in all types of systems. For instance plants that need good drainage wont do as well in a water culture system and are better off in a drip system, but water loving plants like lettuce do well in a water culture system. I'm not familiar with "arugula" and it may very well be a plant that needs good drainage. In which case using a air pump should help the situation, also lowering the overflow tube so they are not soaking in water also should help.

I WILL ADD THE AIR STONES. HOW MANY DOES ONE NEED? ARE THEY THE SMALL ONES OR THE LONG KIND (8 IN+). HOW MANY SHOULD I HAVE FOR THE SUMMER TIME?

This really depends on what you can fit in your system and how much air your pump pumps out. Shape does not matter, though I wouldn't use the light round tubes rather the actual stones. The round tubes have clogged up on me and are so light that when air is pumped through them they float, so you need to weigh them down. The rule of thumb (for me at least) is the more the better. But keep in mind just because you add more stones does not mean that you are adding more oxygen. The pump is still putting out the same amount of air, just splitting it between however many stones you are using. I am sure you know but just in case, the air stones and pumps in the pet supply stores for aquariums work just fine.

The warmer the nutrient/water temp the less oxygen it can hold onto. So in general warmer means less oxygen in the solution and in my opinion you can never get too much oxygen to the roots.

I AM USING BOTANICARE PUREBLEND PRO IN MY SECOND SYSTEM AND THEY SAY NOT TO USE H2O2 AS IT WILL KILL BENEFICIALS. I WILL CONTACT GENHYDRO REGARDING ITS USE WITH ITS MAXIGRO. I AM ALSO USING SM 90 IN BOTH SYSTEMS. DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS PRODUCT?

I don't have any first hand experience with these products. I will need to do some research on them. Though if they recommend not to use the Hydrogen Peroxide with it there's probably a reason, and contacting General Hydroponics to find out the particulars would be best. As I mentioned it will kill both good and bad bacterias, but how that differs from the Flora series nutrients I use, I cant tell you. It looks to work fine with the flora series nutrients as long as you don't use too much.

IT IS SORT OF A HYDRID SYSTEM AND THE WATER IS CONSTANTLY MOVING.

The moving water will help keep algae growth down but does not add any oxygen to it. I just asked because I was concerned about possible algae growth.

THE SM 90 IS SUPPOSE TO HELP WITH BREAKING SURFACE TENSION AND HELPING TO KEEP EMITTERS CLEAN.

I am not familiar with this product and am not exactly sure how it's different from the FloraKleen. I just know that I had a problem with the salt buildup last summer and the FloraKleen was recommended to correct it because it dissolves these salts.

I BOUGHT MY HEATER AT THE PET STORE. $34 FOR ONE WITH A WIDE RANGE OF ADJUSTABILITY, IT IS RATED AT 300 WATTS. LIKE YOU SAID THOUGH IT DOES COST MONEY TO RUN THEM. IT YOU COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATE SOURCE LET ME KNOW.

The ones that I was looking at were at Walmart and I don't remember how many watts, but you may have a larger one for 45 gallons to heat. The ones I was referring to were designed up to 15 gallons. Though using the fixed one set at 78 degrees for 45 gallons instead of the recommended 15 may not get that hot, and might wind up being in the right range. In any case, I am more concerned with spending $20 each and needing 5 or 6 of them, including tax it would be somewhere like $130, not to mention the electricity. Though because the plants don't need to feed at night it wouldn't need to be on all night. Maybe just 1 hr or 1 1/2 hr to warm up, before it gets light and the pump turns on.

I have not got anything worked out yet but I am considering using a cheep electric heating blanket from a garage sale or thrift shop. Taking the coils out of it as a heating element. It's waterproof as long as you don't accidentally cut the coil taking it out. Also maybe just wrapping the blanket around the reservoir itself. I am quite sure I can get these for $3-$5 ea, it will take a little fine tuning but will be much cheaper. You probably would not need to do this because I think you only have 2 systems. I have 3 running right now with more planed. Including a 128 strawberry plant system I hope to have running by late January. Also 2 water culture systems that I want to get running as soon as I can get another air pump and get the seeds sprouted.