Root color
I growing in a GH Aero unit. The roots start of white but when I check them 2-3 weeks later after they are developed and in the water at the bottom they are brown. The plant seems healthy, is this normal for the roots?
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My strawberry plants also looked healthy but were not growing as fast as they were. I started adding ice to the nutrient solution to cool it down and the roots started growing back white and healthy again in about a week (also in attached pictures). Another side affect is the flowers will start to turn yellow and fall off. This is a survival instinct by the plant because it takes more energy to produce the fruit. |
Thanks for your reply. Temperature was a big problem this past summer but not now. My brown is different than your brown. I'll post a pic tomorrow.
Art |
OK, if nutrient temp is not an issue, I would suspect the nutrients themselves.
1. What type of nutrients are you using? 2. Is the system a N.F.T.system? 3. How often do you change the nutrients? 4. Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? 5. Do you check the pH every day, and what is the pH level? 6. What plants are you growing? 7. How old are the plants? 8. Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? 9. Is there a lot of algae growing in the system? |
Thanks for your detailed reply, I had to get pic's also.
OK, if nutrient temp is not an issue, I would suspect the nutrients themselves. 1. What type of nutrients are you using? Gen Hydro dry grow only 2. Is the system a N.F.T.system? GH aeroponic 36 3. How often do you change the nutrients? Every 2-3 weeks, 45 gal in system. 4. Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? No, should I, I have air pumps laying around. 5. Do you check the pH every day, and what is the pH level? Yes, pH 6.5 although it may range from 6 to 7. The EC of the solution is 1.6, 1120 ppm (Hanna 9813-6 meter calibrated regularly for pH and EC). 6. What plants are you growing?Lettace, broccoli, brussel sprouts, basil, arugula 7. How old are the plants? The brown one in the picture is old arugula, I think the problem is that it is old and the roots were in water that was too deep. In the pic of the newer plant the roots are white. 8. Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? No I haven't. I assume this doesn't apply to quick lettace crops but would be a good thing for the brussel sprouts and broccoli and artichoke over their 60-90 day growing period. How often should I flush the system and how many gallons should I make and how long should I run it before I drain it and mix up another 50 gallon nutrient solution as the crops mature? 9. Is there a lot of algae growing in the system?No I just added an aquarium heater to the solution to keep the temp at 70 degrees, is this an ideal temp. I am in So. Calif. This has turned into a big question, thanks so much for your help! Art I tried to attach jpegs, I couldn't tell if they made it as I composed this. I attached them through "Attach Files" and hit the upload button. |
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Trying pics again, smaller file size. Root photos (2) and 3 general of unit
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Hydrogen Peroxide also kills bacteria in the water (good and bad ones) but as long as you don't use too much it can be beneficial. I use about half a teaspoon per gallon every week myself. Some people say that some hydrogen peroxides like the kind found in the pharmacy has stabilizers in it, and suggest that you use a 35% hydrogen peroxide instead. But my experience is to just read the label for the active and inactive ingredients and if it has anything more than Hydrogen Peroxide for the active ingredients and purified water for the inactive ingredients don't use it. I just use the 3% from Wal-mart myself. If you can find the 35% it will be 10 times the price but in effect you use 10 times less. I can give you a link to a chart if you need it. Quote:
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I am no expert, but if it's some kind of brown algae growing on the roots like I suspect, I would take out all the plants and gently wash them off best as I could. Then scrub the growing chambers out with soap and water and rinse. Then flush the pump hose and clean the pump. Scrub the reservoir with soap and water rinse thoroughly. Put it all back together and fill with just plain water and run 20 min (2-3 times). Then flush with FloraKleen if you have it, if not don't wait to clean the system. Then dump and replace with fresh nutrients. Because You are using General Hydroponics nutrients and hydro system, you can also e-mail there tech support with the pictures at: tech@genhydro.com or call them at (1-800-374-9376) or 1-707-824-9376. |
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Gen Hydro dry grow only I am not exactly familiar with GH's line of dry nutrients but I only found one that they carry (FLORAMATO DRY) IT IS CALLED MAXIGROW Quote: GH aeroponic 36 I think this is what you have AeroFlo 36 Aeroponic System If it is a true aeroponic system, it uses misters/emitters to spray the roots. This could be a source of problems also, like uneven watering as the misters/emitters can clog. Also because the roots are hanging in mid air they are much more susceptible to drying out if not watered frequently. IT IS A HYBRID SYSTEM. THERE IS A DRAIN TUBE YOU PULL UP INSIDE THE CHAMBER IN THE BEGINNING TO KEEP THE ROOTS WET INSIDE THEIR BASKET FILLED WITH HYDROTON. WHEN THE ROOTS START COMING THROUGH THE BASKET YOU PUSH THE TUBE DOWN TO LOWER THE WATER LEVEL AND THE LASER CUT LINE FUNCTIONS MORE AS A MISTER. NOW THAT I HAVE HAD THE SYSTEM FOR A WHILE AND HAVE OBSERVED IT, IT REALLY DOESN'T SPRAY VERY WELL ESPECIALLY AT THE END OF EACH CHAMBER. I WOULD BE BETTER OFF TO FIGURE HOW TO PUNCH A HOLE IN THE LASER CUT LINE AND TRY INSTALLING AN EMITTER/MISTER. THE RESULT WOULD BE FAR SUPERIOR. DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE EMITTER/MISTER? Quote: Every 2-3 weeks, 45 gal in system 36 plants in the system and 45 gallons feeding them, I don't think 2-3 weeks would be a problem. Though if it is a true aeroponic system, it should be able to run with less than half that in the reservoir just fine. My concern with letting it go 3 weeks between changes here is it gives time for unwanted things like algae to grow, both in the reservoir and growing chambers. It is kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but the brown looks to be something that is covering the roots instead of the roots themselves. As I look at the picture of the basket with the long strand of brown roots, it looks like the basket itself is the same color of brown, leading me to believe it's something like a brown algae that is covering all of it. CHECKED THE BASKET FOR ALGAE AND IT IS NOT. I THINK IT WAS JUST ROOTS THAT WERE WATER EXPOSED FOR TOO LONG. OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHAT COLOR ARE THE ROOTS IN AN NFT SYSTEM SINCE PART OF THEM ARE IN WATER ALL THEY TIME? Quote: Are you using an air pump and air stone to aerate the nutrients? No, should I, I have air pumps laying around. Yes, it's a good idea to use them. It does two things, first as the bubbles rise to the top of the nutrient solution it picks up oxygen molecules from the bubbles. Second it keeps the water moving (like a flowing stream) and inhibits algae growth. You may also want to consider using Hydrogen Peroxide added to the solution. Hydrogen Peroxide is nothing more than purified water with added oxygen molecules, though you don't want to use more than 1 teaspoon of 3% per gallon of water. I WILL ADD THE AIR STONES. HOW MANY DOES ONE NEED? ARE THEY THE SMALL ONES OR THE LONG KIND (8 IN+). HOW MANY SHOULD I HAVE FOR THE SUMMER TIME? Hydrogen Peroxide also kills bacteria in the water (good and bad ones) but as long as you don't use too much it can be beneficial. I use about half a teaspoon per gallon every week myself. Some people say that some hydrogen peroxides like the kind found in the pharmacy has stabilizers in it, and suggest that you use a 35% hydrogen peroxide instead. But my experience is to just read the label for the active and inactive ingredients and if it has anything more than Hydrogen Peroxide for the active ingredients and purified water for the inactive ingredients don't use it. I just use the 3% from Wal-mart myself. If you can find the 35% it will be 10 times the price but in effect you use 10 times less. I can give you a link to a chart if you need it. I AM USING BOTANICARE PUREBLEND PRO IN MY SECOND SYSTEM AND THEY SAY NOT TO USE H2O2 AS IT WILL KILL BENEFICIALS. I WILL CONTACT GENHYDRO REGARDING ITS USE WITH ITS MAXIGRO. I AM ALSO USING SM 90 IN BOTH SYSTEMS. DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS PRODUCT? Quote: Yes, pH 6.5 although it may range from 6 to 7. I haven't checked the requirements for your plants but this might be a little high. The top end for broccoli is generally 6.5, though growing conditions play a part in the plants individual requirements, even for the same plant. I personally don't have a EC/PPM or a TDS meter but here is a link to charts for Plant Requirements for Fruit, Vegetables, Herbs and Flowers. Quote: How old are the plants? The brown one in the picture is old arugula, I think the problem is that it is old and the roots were in water that was too deep. This has me a bit confused because if the roots are sitting in water it is not a true areoponic system. It might be a combination aeroponic system and another type. But if the roots are sitting in water, the water needs to be moving. Either by a air pump directly at the roots (like a Water Culture Systems) or a water pump that continusly keeps the water flowing (like a N.F.T. type system) IT IS SORT OF A HYDRID SYSTEM AND THE WATER IS CONSTANTLY MOVING. Quote: Have you flushed the system with FloraKleen to get rid of the accumulated fertilizer salts? No I haven't. I don't think that this would directly cause the problem, but the accumulated fertilizer salts can build up on the roots and growing medium and cause a nutrient imbalance. FLORA KLEEN Salt Clearing Solution Quote: How often should I flush the system They recommend at every nutrient change with a stronger solution as the plants mature. Quote: and how many gallons should I make and how long should I run it Well What I do is, when it's time to change nutrients, I dump the old nutrients. Take apart the pump and thoroughly clean it. Then clean the reservoir with soap and water and rinse it thoroughly. Put it all back together again, fill the system with the minimum amount of water (just water) it takes to run the system and not run the pump dry. Then add 1-2 teaspoons of FloraKleen per gallon, and let run for about 2 continuous hours. Then dump it out, rinse the reservoir and fill with fresh nutrients. This will also help keep the misters/emitters from building up the salts and clogging in an aeroponic system. THE SM 90 IS SUPPOSE TO HELP WITH BREAKING SURFACE TENSION AND HELPING TO KEEP EMITTERS CLEAN. THE FLORA KLEEN IS DESIGNED FOR THE SALT BUILDUP AS YOU SAID SO I WILL START USING IT, THANKS. Quote: I just added an aquarium heater to the solution to keep the temp at 70 degrees, is this an ideal temp. Yes, that's just fine if that is the actual temp of the nutrients, it's right in the middle of 68-72 degrees. I need to get some aquarium heaters also because the night time temps are getting into the upper 40's now. The only aquarium heaters I have found that go that low are the ones with an adjustable thermostat, and run about $20. The cheaper ones have a fixed temp of 78 degrees and run about $15. I have 3 hydro systems running right now, with more planed. That can get quite expensive, so I am looking at other alternatives also. I BOUGHT MY HEATER AT THE PET STORE. $34 FOR ONE WITH A WIDE RANGE OF ADJUSTABILITY, IT IS RATED AT 300 WATTS. LIKE YOU SAID THOUGH IT DOES COST MONEY TO RUN THEM. IT YOU COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATE SOURCE LET ME KNOW. I am no expert, but if it's some kind of brown algae growing on the roots like I suspect, I would take out all the plants and gently wash them off best as I could. Then scrub the growing chambers out with soap and water and rinse. Then flush the pump hose and clean the pump. Scrub the reservoir with soap and water rinse thoroughly. Put it all back together and fill with just plain water and run 20 min (2-3 times). Then flush with FloraKleen if you have it, if not don't wait to clean the system. Then dump and replace with fresh nutrients. Because You are using General Hydroponics nutrients and hydro system, you can also e-mail there tech support with the pictures at: tech@genhydro.com or call them at (1-800-374-9376) or 1-707-824-9376. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, IT IS APPRECIATED!! I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED. ART |
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The warmer the nutrient/water temp the less oxygen it can hold onto. So in general warmer means less oxygen in the solution and in my opinion you can never get too much oxygen to the roots. Quote:
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I have not got anything worked out yet but I am considering using a cheep electric heating blanket from a garage sale or thrift shop. Taking the coils out of it as a heating element. It's waterproof as long as you don't accidentally cut the coil taking it out. Also maybe just wrapping the blanket around the reservoir itself. I am quite sure I can get these for $3-$5 ea, it will take a little fine tuning but will be much cheaper. You probably would not need to do this because I think you only have 2 systems. I have 3 running right now with more planed. Including a 128 strawberry plant system I hope to have running by late January. Also 2 water culture systems that I want to get running as soon as I can get another air pump and get the seeds sprouted. |
Good info in this post.
I would highly suggest a airpump, and Defusers in your reservoir, and in any hydroponic system if at all possible. With a closed system it might be the reason your plant roots are having issues.. because them being wet wet wet and the fluid isn't oxygenated much. You can grow plants in 100% fluid as done with a DWC system (Deep Water Culture), but it has to be aerated to get the needed Oxygen to the roots. None will result in root rot, and thats what it looks like your experiencing there. IF it's not to late, I would also suggest the Hydrogen peroxide method mentioned above for trying to clear up the problem, but I personally wouldn't use it on a regular basis, but thats a personal choice. :D Also, if you have your air defuser near your fishtank heater, it will help to distribute your heat throughout your resevior |
roots cont.
Thanks for eveyones help. Just to bring this up to date.
-the baskets are literally 2 color, green on top and brown on the bottom. There is definitely no algae thank goodness. -I cut off the brown roots and and new white ones are returning. They just turned brown for what ever reason. -I will buy air stones tomorrow. They should be a nice help now and a huge help this coming summer. -I will try to find some emitters to try in the laser line. As mentioned previously I'm sure there is an optimal water droplet size but at this point I am just looking to accomplish keeping the roots wet, wet, wet like suggested. I'll let you know if I find a good combination. -This aeroponic system could be run as a deep water culture by keeping the water level high in the grow troughs and plenty of oxygen as you folks mentioned. The water level can also be lowered from full to about a 1/2 inch deep creating the aeroponic aspect and hence the name of the system. One of the drawbacks being though they the last sprayer hole or two in the laser cut line doesn't spray even close to the force or coverage the first 3 or 4 sprayer holes in the laser line do. Even if I find emitters to plug into the laser it will not be easy to break the system down as they will have to be pulled out of the line should I need to remove it for whatever reason. That said, I would not recommend this system because the troughs do not have lids and this makes it tough to clean and the laser cut sprays are not consistent, I did pull a line, clean and check it to make sure it wasn't clogged before I put it back together and observed it. They want big money for these troughs and there really is nothing to them. I have been checking out CropKing systems. They have an NFT system where you can buy just the troughs, lids (easy to clean), spouted and not spouted end caps, plus a couple of other little items for a far cheaper price. I then plan on using the existing reservoir and pump. Of course being NFT there are no tiny emitters to deal with and water levels are of no concern as the nutrient solution just runs from on end to the drain on the other. Check out their website as they are a big ass company. Art |
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Example: I am planing to build a 128 plant system that I designed for strawberry's (pictures attached). I estimate it will cost less than $300 to build, including the plants (I wont be using seeds), growing medium, baskets, water pump, air pump, vinyl tubing, wood for the stand and all the rest of the parts. The picture shows a 64 plant system, I will be building two of these. I have a 32 gallon trash can I got at Walmart for $10 that I will be using for the reservoir for the both of them. It's designed as a flood and drain system but with one small change it's easily converted into a N.F.T. system. |
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I checked out the PDF for your GH Aero System.
I guess I'm confused as to what their trying to accomplish. My First Hydro System I built was combination NFT with Mini Sprayers inside which I would guess is similar to this systems operation/goal. If your sprayers are getting your roots wet, there really shouldn't be much of a need to soak the roots in a deep nutrient. Once the roots reach the bottom of the trough, you shouldn't have to worry about them being soaked. I'll see if I can find the pictures of the one I built. I'm still guessing that Oxygenation of your nutrient fluid might help. Also, if you do have a problem with heat..that could be a problem also wit the root browning. Also, I'm not sure, but I thought I read something that the system was designed to be grown/used under artificial lighting, which would suggest indoor use, where room temp. would be more likely controlled, suggesting to ME that you wouldn't have to worry about outside heat spikes in temps. Oh, before I forget... How were your plants started? From seed in a hydro-friendly medium? Or Soil, then transplanted to your system? |
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Responding to posts.
I think GH had there own set of problems. It really isn't a true aero system because the sprays from the laserline don't effectively wet the baskets in the beginning, hence the need for flooding the tubes to wet the young plants and then having to slowly reduce the water level until the roots are dangling in the 1/2 in. of nutrient solution in the tube. It is a bit of a hassle and requires pretty much that all 6 holes must be planted at the same time. This problem is easily solved by the pictures you posted and my own experience today. I drilled a 1.5 in. hole for access next to the last plant basket opening in the tube. I then drilled a small hole in the laser line and installed a mister, the kind that has a spinner. It works great! Problem solved. I then saw the posted picture with the same 5x5 in. vinyl tube with the multiple spaghetti tubes in it. By the way, it is a fence post for vinyl fences available from HomeDepot but they aren't cheap, $40 plus end caps.
KevinL drilled holes between the baskets put in the spaghetti tubing off a poly tube and there is probably misters on the end. I think I will do this and abandon the laser line. I'll run one poly tube between 2 tubes and feed them both off it. I will use the the existing nutrient drains back into the reservoir. I will end up with an aeroponic system with the run off being essentially an NFT system. I guess this is the best of both world. This way the roots will be wetted (baskets misted) when first placed in the tubes and no roots have grown out the basket. I won't have to worry about water depth any more. Then as the roots grow and eventually grow out of the basket they will be sprayed and eventually dangle into the nutrient film as it flows downhill to the return and into the reservoir. There will be no need for air stones which would get clogged with roots in deep water culture. Also, won't the spraying action of the misters incorporate much more O2 into the solution and ultimately make the O2 question moot? Let me know. With all of your inputs I must say thanks so much. I think with the changes outlined above my aero system will be working about as optimally as possible. If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know. The plants in the system were bought at the local nursery, washed off as much dirt as possible and then planted them in the baskets with the Coco Tek liners and then finished filling with Hydroton. I was able to remove almost all of the dirt on real small plants and not so much on older plants. They are all thriving. I am now sprouting seeds and will move them into 1 in. rockwool cubes and into the 4 NFT channels I purchased from CropKing. They are relatively inexpensive. I haven't been able to piece together anything else that will do shallow NFT for any cheaper. If anyone else has let me know. I will use this system for green leafy veggies, I may try another veggie just for the heck of it. I am interested in the strawberry system you are building GpsFrontier. What are you using for tubes and are you using the small baskets with liners and hydroton? Is your system going to be like the tube pictured with the polyline and spaghetti tubes and misters etc? You also said you won't be sprouting the strawberries, what/how/where are the plants coming from etc... Please let me know. |
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Link to my Pea and green bean system in this forum Quote:
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I will be using the same 3 inch baskets that I am using for the peas and green beans. I plan to use Coco chips for the growing medium, $10 for 2 cubic feet should be enough. The chips are big enough that I don't need liners. Quote:
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Root color continuation
I tried to make the post appear as yours does but I am not quite there yet. Please let me know how to make the portions of your messages look the way you make mine do in your replies.
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Not really "IN" the solution but to the roots themselves. Although I would still use a air stone in the reservoir because it helps to circulate the water when the pump is off, and I don't believe the roots can ever get too much oxygen. Code:
The square tubing is key to the design because as you can see it allows 2 rows of plants in the same tube (maximizing space and nutrients). I attached a picture of a commercial hydroponics farm using the same type system (its where I got the idea). Note: the plants are high enough to walk under making it easy to pick the berry's. Mine will be waist high though. Code:
No, it will be a flood and drain system (no misters). The through holes sticking out from the end caps will be the inlet and the one going out the bottom will be the return. I attached pictures of the through holes that I use. I get them in the electrical department at Home Depot, they run $1.97 each. Half inch vinyl tubing fits perfectly in the center of the through holes, so all I need to do to adjust the water height is use a longer or shorter piece of vinyl tubing. If I want to change it to a N.F.T. I'll just take out the vinyl tubing I am not quite clear on Home Depot parts and picture. Does the Depot part form a watertight seal? I also didn't quite see how changing the tube converted from a ebb and flow to NFT. I must be missing something. I think I lost some of your closeup pictures. Code:
They are actually dormant (strawberries) but will be full size in about 2 weeks (much faster than seeds). Are you running most of your veggies then as ebb and flow? How many times in a 12 hour period do you cycle the system? |
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As in the case with the hydrogen peroxide, it is nothing more than purifier water with an extra oxygen molecule, but it is still in liquid form because the extra oxygen molicules are attached to the water (H2O). Hydrogen peroxide is in fact H2O2 because it has 2 oxygen molecules instead of one. When using the air stones some of the water grabs onto these oxygen molecules passing through it, and then the plants can adsorb them directly from the water. But the roots will still be able to absorb the oxygen from the air that it is in direct contact with also, giving it 2 sources of oxygen. As a side effect of the air bubbles rising, the water is actually moving. This helps keep the algae down because it cant grow very well in moving water. That helps keep your nutrients fresher longer. Quote:
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OK, here is the link to the page of strawberry's we ordered.
BloomingBulb.com What we actually ordered was: Strawberry Collection - Allstar, Ozark & Quinault 50111 We didn't wind up using them because at the time I didn't know that they were going to be dormant plants. Though I was wondering why the shipping was so cheep for live plants. They are actually the plants root ball, that is packed in sawdust like bulbs to ship. You plant the root ball and it grows back. It was almost summer here and I didn't want to wait for them to come back because it was already getting hot, and didn't know how long they had to live in our heat anyway. I only ordered them because they didn't have any at Lowe's, Home Depot or Walmart at the time. But after we ordered them they got some in at Lowe's. Then when I found out they were actually dormant plants we went back to Lowe's and got 5, 6 packs instead. An example of the prices: Strawberry Plants - Allstar - Junebearer Item #20206 Quantity:......Each Price:........Sale Price: 10..................$0.55................$0.39 30...................$0.31...............$0.22 100.................$0.22................$0.15 500+...............$0.18................$0.13 You can also do a search for Live strawberry plants for sale and find more places to order them from. "Quinault" is supposed to be the biggest and sweetest of the different variety's and usually what they sell at the market. |
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