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GpsFrontier 08-16-2011 01:04 AM

The before pictures
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Even though I wont have the access to the money for a few weeks, I can still get some things going. These are the before pictures of the spot where my greenhouse will be located. My first task is to get rid of that dirt mound, then I can begin marking out the area where the greenhouse, and in-ground nutrient reservoirs will located. Also once the dirt mound is out of the way, I can call the city and have them mark where the phone lines run underground. I have a good idea of exactly where it is, and it will probably run right down the middle of the dirt area. Going from the utility pole, to the box on the wall just underneath the breaker box on the house.

Unfortunately it will be right in the middle of the space I need for the subterranean heating and cooling system. But I got some good news yesterday, when my neighbor mentioned they usually place them 6 feet deep. That would be great, because I will only be going down 4 feet deep for the subterranean heating and cooling system. So if that's true, it wont be in my way at all. If not, then I will need to run the in-ground cooling tubs to the left and right sides of the phone line instead.

I took complete measurements of the yard today so I can make some scale mock up drawings on paper of the subterranean system tubing layout. Once I know exactly where the phone line is, as well as how deep it is. Then have the subterranean system drawn out, the next steep is to calculate the amount of gravel I will want for back fill, and have it delivered. The gravel is to aid in drainage of the water that will be from the subterranean system (because our soil is compact). Then I will need to rent a backhoe to dig the trenches for the tubing and vertical stacks, drop them in and back fill it. I also have a electrician coming this week to give me an estimate on installing 2 breakers in the breaker box that will supply power for everything. He's a friend I often hang out and watch Monday night football with, so I know he will give me a good price. Besides I would rather give the work to a friend I know could use the money.

Not fun work when it's 110 degrees out, and it will probably be that way until October.

jamromhem 08-16-2011 03:52 PM

wow, I could never live there lol.. I absolutely adore having a green lawn and it looks like it would take way too much work to accomplish there if even possible lol..

Other than that note :p It looks like a great spot to start there.

GpsFrontier 08-17-2011 05:17 AM

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Ya, you could have a green lawn, but you would be the only one on the block. They take a lot of preparation, but most importantly they use way too much water. The only places with grass around here are the golf course's.

I wasn't planing to do these drawings on the computer, but it wasn't too hard. Especially since I used a Google sketchup to make the grid that I printed out so I can make the hand made drawings to scale. Each square represents one square foot. Just in case you may be wondering why I left so much space behind the greenhouse (between the greenhouse and retaining wall), that's because city code requires the structure to be 10 feet from the property line. The retaining wall is 3 feet from the property line, so there are 7 boxes (feet) between the retaining wall and the greenhouse structure.

The first image shows the basic layout, "excluding" the placement of the in-ground reservoirs. That's because I'm still deciding on the best placement for them. The second image shows the same layout, but also includes the placement of the "vertical" air tubes for both of the separate Subterranean heating and cooling systems. As well as one layer of the array of in ground cooling tubes. There will be 3 layers of cooling tubes. First one 4 feet deep, second one 3 feet deep, third one 2 feet deep. The black line straight through the greenhouse is where I believe the underground phone line is located, but I'll definitely have it marked before I begin digging (I plan on calling them tomorrow to come out and mark it). I just finished leveling out the area today.

halfway 08-17-2011 11:25 AM

Looks good GF.

Anxious to see the progress!

jamromhem 08-18-2011 08:15 PM

Those looks like some great plans. Are you going to have a real foundation or a wooden framing sitting on the ground? if not a more difficult to move foundation most places don't count it as a structure for the property line purpose.. I know in texas I had a shed 16x12 only 3ft from the line because it was just a wooded frame and no concrete, and by their rules not a perminant structure, because I could move it with a couple jacks if I needed to. That is just a thought...

Also I would be interested in seeing what a temperature probe would tell you at 2ft.. You might have heavier warming at the shallow depth depending on the soil properties. My mother's land would handle that having a clay bed 1ft from the surface and a stream 10ft under (the soil stays cold in 110 degrees only 6 inches down) It might be a good thing to test and would be worth it to avoid future troubles.. The sandier and rockier soils might be prone to more surface heating than dirtier soils. I might be wrong, but it wouldnt hurt to see what the temps are like with just the heat from the sun on the surface.

GpsFrontier 08-19-2011 03:14 AM

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Wow, the book I ordered (Fresh Culinary Herb Production) came today. I only ordered it Sunday night. It wound up only taking 4 days to process the order and make it to my doorstep. That's quick, and was sent "USPS" mail from Colorado to Arizona.

I called 1-800-stake-it yesterday, and they made the arrangements to have all the utility's come out and mark underground lines. It takes 2 days for all of them to respond, but they'll be done by Friday night. The phone line is the only one I expect to be in the area I will be digging in. They marked it today, and it's exactly where I thought it would be. I wont be able to dig within 2 feet of it on either side. That's fine, that is what I expected anyway. My friend the electrician also tells me it's probably only a foot or so down (FYI).

Also My friend (the electrician) came by yesterday to give me an estimate. I expected 2 breakers to be enough, but he advised me I would want/need 3, because the portable AC (I don't expect to use much), should be on a separate breaker because it will pull about 15 amps, and one breaker wouldn't be enough to run everything else (pumps, fans, propagation lights). So I'll be getting three 20 amp breakers installed. It will run me about $250 to install the breakers, hook up a junction box below the breaker box, run the wires through the electrical conduit to the greenhouse, and finally wire the the water proof outlet boxes I setup in the greenhouse (with all GFI outlets).

The greenhouse will be attached to the ground by sliding the 2 inch electrical conduit frame into 2 1/2 inch electrical conduit buried in the ground. The same way the metal frame is attached to the ground in the pictures attached. The biggest difference in the in my greenhouse from the one in the pictures (besides the actual size) is I will be using electrical conduit instead of metal fence post tubing. And the doorway will be on the long side, rather than the ends. The base wood framing will be pressure treated wood so it wont rot.

The greenhouse floor will basically be packed dirt. However it will have a couple of layers of weed control screening to keep down soil borne pathogens and pests within the greenhouse. I may also add a layer of crushed rock (Arizona Decorative Rock), it will take about 2 tons if I do. The gray rock is only $20 a ton, and I will probably order extra when have it delivered for subterranean heating and cooling system back fill (for better drainage of the sub T system).

The reason I'm not going with permanent flooring isn't a property line, or city code issue. It's for my moms sake, I want everything removable. I don't want to take out the greenhouse and leave a ulgy cement patch in the middle of the yard. The property line issue is because of the easement between property that allows the city access to the power line poll. It's not illegal, or even uncommon for people to encroach in that area. But should the city need access to it, and there is no other way, they can tear down anything in their way at will, and without paying to replace it. So if you do build in that area, you build it at your own risk (like my neighbors wall). I just want to avoid those issues, so I wont be building in the easement area. However if I decide to place a in ground reservoir there, I plan to leave space so I can build a solid bridge over it they can drive their trucks over.

I may in the future (money permitting), decide to install pave-stone flooring in the greenhouse (perhaps even around it). But when I expand to another location I will probably go with a decomposed granite (Stabilized Decomposed Granite and Crushed Stone Stabilizer) or traditional cement flooring. The decomposed granite is supposed to be just about as hard and smooth as cement, but cheaper and nicer looking.

After taking some measurements today above the retaining wall, and considering the 4 foot wide 275 gallon water tanks. It just wouldn't be reasonable to put it just behind the wall. In order to do so it wouldn't be more than 1 foot away from the retaining wall, and thus wouldn't provide enough insulating effect. I am considering farther back behind the wall, as well as between the bushes. That would be about 6 to 8 feet from the wall. The ground is too hard there for me to tap a poll down to get a temp reading. I would need to dig it out by hand, or rent a electric post hole digger. I will try to get some fittings to hook up the hose to PVC tubing, and try to bore out a hole with water pressure. But it's probably going to be to rocky for that to work.

I know from experience here that you don't really start to feel the cool earth until about 18 to 24 inches deep. That's from when I dug the 30 inch deep hole for the reservoir for my tomato's. Though my concern with ground temps behind the retaining wall are because it's on a hill and I'm not sure how that affects the ground water there. But I have always planed to artificially aid in ground water anyway. I'll be placing soaker hose around the in-ground reservoirs near the surface. Placing it a few inches down, and surrounded by sand to aid in drainage, as well as help keep the soaker hose from becoming clogged from dirt.

Then connecting the soaked hose to a automatic hose timer, and setting it to run for a few minutes at a time, once or twice a day. That will keep the sub soil wet all the time, and give me the maximum geothermal effects without using too much water. I will also keep track of the nutrient temperatures, both with and without the use of the soaker hose. I want to see just how much effect it actually adds, as well as how much water it needs to get the maximum effects. And I can use that experience and data for a larger scale operation later.

jamromhem 08-20-2011 10:02 AM

Good to hear you are making some progress. I will have to agree on (or in) a hill would probably not be the best bet. Sorry to hear that you can't take some tests of temps before hand, but with hope your previous experiences with the area will be adiquate to allow for what you are looking for. From what it sounds most of the cost for your system will be the labor itself more than anything lol. Or perhaps the hydroponic components and fans :P. I am eager to see your progress when it gets going. The herb system could be a useful idea for a friend of mine that was thinking about getting into a similar thing in the area.

I will let you know if I come up with any other useful ideas along the way.

GpsFrontier 08-20-2011 07:24 PM

Well I have a few friends that I think I can get to help when I need extra hands by bribing them mostly with just beer and pizza (and beer, and beer, and beer, and beer). But without posting the complete breakdown of the estimated figures, here are the totals for each section. Overall, the total start up cost is higher than I originally expected to be around $3,500. But at the same time, to be on the safe side everything in the start up costs list is a high end estimate. And I know I can bring down the actual cost of some of the things needed various ways. Not to mention even though I will need to build the Subterranean heating and cooling now, before the greenhouse is built (because it will be below it). By the time I have the greenhouse and hydroponic system built, and have plants growing in it, it will be early October. It will be cool enough then that I wont need the portable AC and shade cloth until next spring, saving about $600 right off the top.

Start-up cost totals
The Greenhouse structure....................................$544. 09
The Hydroponic grow system (all 3 levels)...............$851.37
Hydroponic system support structure......................$273.27
Nutrient reservoir/s & water pumps.........................$812
Subterranean heating and cooling..........................$920
Swamp cooler............................................ ..........$80
AC Unit (portable) .............................................$400
Shade Cloth............................................. ...........$209
Greenhouse heating........................................... ...$130
Water Filtration system.......................................$140
Start up Consumables....................................... ....$648
Plant Propagation system......................................$
Electrical........................................ ....................$320
Sales Displays.......................................... ...........$
License's and Permits........................................... .$300
Property Rent.............................................. .........$0
Total start-up cost.............................................. .......$5,307.73 (excluding Sales Displays, and Plant Propagation system)

By far the the hydroponic system and Subterranean heating and cooling system will be the biggest costs. The hydroponic system because it's 3 levels and all the wood needed to build it, waterproofing etc. etc.. As well as the wood needed to build the support structure to hold it. In total the hydroponic system is estimated to be around $1,100. But a lot of that wood can be bought cheaper as pre-cut pieces. Often Home Depot have stacks of cut wood they sell cheep. As an example a 8 foot 2x4 of pressure treated wood sells for $4.97, but a left over pre-cut piece of the same wood, but 3-4 feet long they sell for $0.51 cents. And although I will need longer pieces, the majority of it would be cut into 3-4 foot long pieces anyway. So I'll be buying it up when they have it. Another expensive part of the hydroponic system will be the "High density Styrofoam sheets" that will be used to place the plants in. Unfortunately they only have it in one size, and again because the hydroponic system is 3 levels, I'll be needing almost $180 worth ($5.35 for each 2x8 sheet)

Most of the cost of the Subterranean heating and cooling system is due to our soil conditions. Because the ground is hard as rock, I'll need to rent a backhoe to do all the digging. The cost for the rental, as well as its delivery and pickup will be about $350 (just to dig the holes). Then again because of our soil conditions, and the fact that I want the system to function at it's best, I need to add crushed rock when I back-fill the holes. That will aid in the drainage of the water that condenses underground from the humidity, and then seeps into ground through the perforated tubing (how the sub T system works). But here Again I'll be checking around to see if there is anyone who has a backhoe that wants to rent it out cheaper than the equipment rental company (when I'm actually ready).

The crushed rock is fairly cheep at $20 a ton (roughly 20 cubic feet). But again 4 tons of crushed rock, as well as the delivery will run about $140. But I will also be checking on prices for "bulk sand" for drainage instead (sand will work even better for this purpose). But again I will probably be able to reduce costs here, because my mom wants to add decorative rock to the back yard (you can see some in the pictures beside the garage, and in the neighbors front yard). Combining orders will likely give us free delivery. Anything over 12 tons, and the delivery is free. But bottom line, $490 of the estimated $920 for the sub T system is largely due to our soil conditions.

But by the time construction is actually complete, I expect that I'll be able to come in about $1,000 to $2,000 under the original estimate. So including the Plant Propagation system, and sales displays (not currently in the estimates), I'm guessing that the final total will actually be somewhere around $4,000 to $4,500. However I don't know how much beer I'll need to buy my friends for helping, but luckily they don't have expensive taste, Bud and Coors light is what they like. I like Rum and Vodka myself, beer just makes me pee a lot.


I will let you know if I come up with any other useful ideas along the way.
Absolutely, even if it isn't something that works for me or in my situation, I always like to hear about other peoples ideas and experiences. That's largely where I get my ideas from.

I'm off to go put in the "stake lines" to mark the actual spot for the greenhouse. I'll post pictures again when I have everything marked out. I'll probably know late next week if the credit card is approved, and if so for how much.

GpsFrontier 08-30-2011 05:57 PM

OK well I had hoped to have more pictures to post by now, but there isn't that much more to look at quite yet. I do have the space for the greenhouse staked out and marked. But because it took almost two weeks for all the city utility's (water, sewer, electric, phone, cable, and traffic signals) to respond to the request to mark their utility's, I wasn't able to mark out where the subterranean system's will be going quite yet. Even though they are supposed to respond within 2 working days, water and sewer needed a reminder (second request) to come out, and traffic held me up until yesterday and only finally responded after 4 requests.

But the good news is the business credit card I needed got approved, and for over $6,000, witch is more than I'll need. So now I'm just waiting on the card with my name on it to arrive to begin getting supply's. The bad news is because of scheduling issues, I wont be able to begin digging until the weekend of September 17 at the earliest. But I just wanted to share my calculations on building the subterranean system for anyone interested in the details of the build.

First I needed to calculate the volume of the 4 inch perforated irrigation tubing. So I found a online calculator to do that. It takes 11 (11.454) feet of 4 inch tubing to hold 1 cubic foot of air volume. And 300 feet of 4 inch tubing holds 26.16 cubic feet of air volume. The recommended amount of tubing for a sub "T" system is 1.5 feet (in length) for every square foot of greenhouse floor. So the recommend amount of tubing needed for a 200 square foot greenhouse comes out to 300 feet of tubing.

Also because the air speed through the tubing is critical to how well it functions, I needed to do some more calculations. If the air speed going through the tubes is too fast, there wont be sufficient contact time for the warm water vapor to condense, and that's what makes the sub "T" system work. So the air speed is very critical, and a bigger fan wont make it work better, in fact quite the opposite. The maximum air speed through each tube shouldn't be more than 10 cfm. So here are the numbers I came to.

With each level of the sub "T" system (4 foot deep, 3 foot deep, and 2 foot deep) having 8 tubes for each level, that's a total of 24 equal sized tubes. 300 feet of tubing divided by 24 makes each tube basically 12 feet long.

Now it's also critical to the system working well that the system be able to circulate the entire air volume of the greenhouse underground 5 times per hour. So I needed to know the total air volume of the greenhouse. With 200 square feet of floor space, and 10 foot tall walls (it will probably only actually have 9 foot walls), 200x10= 2,000 cubic feet. But the ceiling will be a upside down "V" shape and hold air volume as well. So even though I don't know exactly how much more air volume that will hold, I just added another 1,000 cubic feet of air (50% more), and feel that should be more than enough extra air volume to add. So with a figure of 3,000 cubic feet of air I was ready to calculate the fan cfm.

3,000 cubic feet of air need to be circulated underground 5 times every hour. Fans are rated in cfm (cubic feet per minute), so 60 minutes divided by 5= 12. So 3,000 divided by 12= 250.

With each tubes air speed being 10 cfm, I'll need about 25 tubes to circulate 250 cfm of air 5 times per hour. Remember I'm building two systems, not one. So it's OK if each system circulates slightly less air volume than needed for the entire greenhouse on its own.

24 tubes total (4 inch wide, 12 foot long), 24x10 cfm= 240
3,000 divided by 12= 250
2,000 divided by 12= 166

So each system will be capable of moving 240 cfm of air at 10 cfm in each tube. And total air volume being between 2,000 and 3,000. So I will need a inline duct fan rated between 166 and 250 cfm like this one: 6-In 110VAC 250CFM In-Line Duct Fan - DB200 - Smarthome for each of the two sub "T" systems. This particular fan will cost me 9 cents a day to run 24/7, and $2.70 a month. With 2 systems/fans in the greenhouse, the electrical cost to run two of the exact fans in the above link 24/7 all month long would be about $5.40 a month. I will also be using a variable switch (like a dimmer switch) for each fan to control the fan speed. That way I can reduce the fan speed and increase contact time with the underground tubes when I want (thus increase condensation).

Total cfm between both systems at 10 cfm in each tube, 480 cfm. That's enough cfm exchange to circulate the entire 3000 cubic feet of air in the greenhouse underground every 6.25 minutes, with no more than 10 cfm in each tube.

GpsFrontier 09-04-2011 05:42 AM

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OK, well I was finally able to come up with a layout for all the in-ground stuff. I'm going to need to change the original plan for installing the sub "T" system in 3 layers. But I will explain that later (when I take pictures of the instillation), because it's going to be difficult to explain, and I don't have time to make 3D drawings right now.

The outer string lines are the walls of the greenhouse. The inner string line box is the walkway inside the greenhouse. The hydroponic system runs the circumference of the greenhouse walls, so the walkway is in the center. The 2 wooden sticks on the ground between the greenhouse wall, and the inner walkway is where the greenhouse doorway will be. All the markings in green are my layouts. The orange line is the phone line, and I'm not supposed to dig within 2 feet of it with power equipment (with hand tools only).

The two green "sort of" triangles are where each of the sub "T" systems will be installed underground. The round green circles inside the sort of triangles are where the vertical tubing (I call them vertical stacks) for each of the sub "T" systems will go. The green squares are where the nutrient reservoir are planed to go.

Some people may member that I mentioned that there is a 10 foot easement between the property line and the greenhouse, and noticed that 2 of the nutrient reservoirs are within that easement. Well due to my moms plans to build a shed near the garage and breaker-box, install a fence that needs to swing open to drive through, as well as extend the patio with pave stones (including a raised planter) to the end of the house and patio awning. I don't really have much choice. But if the city ever needs that easement to get a truck through, I have a plan to lay down some railroad ties and make a sort of bridge they could drive their trucks over.

GpsFrontier 09-06-2011 01:51 AM

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I wasn't planing on making any drawings but it always helps me to picture things before I build them, and I had some time today. So as I mentioned I needed to change my original sub "T" system layout from the planed 3 levels of tubing. I will still have the same number of 4 inch tubes (24), but instead of stacking them in 3 layers of 8, they will be placed vertically side by side in rows (like a flower pedal pattern).

This is mainly because it was the only way to lay them out in the space I have to work with, and keep each section of tubing the same length, and without overlapping, and while keeping a relativity good spacing. In the drawing the tubes look like they overlap, but that's just a flaw in my drawing. In actuality the holes in the 55 gallon drum the 4 inch tubing will go through will be staggered in a pattern so they are separated and aren't touching.

There are 2 sections (chambers) in the 55 gallon drum. The upper chamber is the cool air return. The 6 inch tubing going out the top of the 55 gallon drum is the warm air inlet (with the 6 inch inline duct fan installed), it extends down to the bottom chamber (warm air chamber). The section of 6 inch tubing that goes through the cool air chamber will be insulated to keep it from radiating heat to the cool air. From the bottom chamber, the warm air will begin it's journey through the 4 inch tubing to cool down. It flows through the tubes up to the upper cool air chamber, and exits the system through a directional slat/opening in the 55 gallon drum into the greenhouse.

The bottom of the 55 gallon drum will be open, and sitting on sand and crushed rock media. That will allow any moisture from this section of the system to simply drain down into the soil (like with the perforated tubing).

jamromhem 09-08-2011 02:26 PM

I am guessing that the upper chamber is also provided and opening at the base of the drum? I would be concerned with a little water buildup in that section as well over time, expecially if the outlet is surface mounted on the upper surface. It will promote condensation to drip down as the cooler air hits the open air above. That is the only concern I can see with the design on if the gap between the two chambers down the sidewall alows the upper chamber to drain or not.

That is definitly a decent design, Have you selected a fan yet? I would have started there to ensure I could divide the airflow to where I would want it.

GpsFrontier 09-08-2011 08:04 PM

Ya, you have a good point. I briefly thought about allowing the upper chamber to drain down into the bottom one, but didn't want the air between the two chambers to be allowed to mix. That would reduce the effectiveness of the system, as well as divert the airflow from where it's supposed to be going. But after reading your post, I thought I could add a sort of vent (through hole, bulkhead fitting etc.) and small tube to drain it down the outside of the 55 gallon drum into the sand the whole thing will be sitting on. Or even just cut some small slits or drilling tiny holes in the bottom sides of the upper chamber for the water to drain through (perforating it).

As for the fan, I will be using a 6 inch inline duct fan like this one : 6" Aero-Flo InLine Duct Fan 240 CFM - Airflow Technology, Inc. (Note: it states "Great for Greenhouses and Hydroponic gardens") so it will be OK in high humidity situations.

I wont be buying it online, but getting it at Lowe's or Home depot so I don't need to pay for shipping. It may not be that exact manufactures fan, but it will be a 6 inch duct fan with about a 240-250 cfm rating, and for use in humid conditions (like greenhouses or bathroom duct vent fans). That's why the warm air inlet tube (that extends up from the 55 gallon drum) is 6 inches wide, that way the 6 inch inline duct fan will fit inline with it seamlessly, and without restricting any airflow.

GpsFrontier 09-13-2011 09:17 PM

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Well I got my three nutrient reservoir today. It took 6 hours from start to finish (long story), but my final cost for the 3 reservoirs was only $300 total. Also while I was there I asked if they had 55 gallon drums too, and sure enough they did. They had something like 300 of them. And I almost fell over when they told me how much they were, only $7 each. I got the 2 I need, then figured I would get 4 more for my mom to use as rain barrels instead of the 32 gallons trash cans she's using right now. Also Home Depot is delivering the materials I ordered tomorrow (Wednesday), then Arizona decorative rock is delivering the mortar sand (for good drainage) I ordered on Thursday. While I wait for the deliveries I'll be preparing the tanks and barrels for use. Of coarse it chose to rain today and has been raining all day, but should clear up by tomorrow and be clear through the weekend.

That's me in the picture. I typically prefer not to be in the pictures unless I need to be, but my mom really wanted me to pose with the stuff.

Stan 09-13-2011 10:16 PM

And I thought I had a long beard!:D:cool: You beat me by just a few inches.

You got a great deal on those 55 gallon drums. I can't find those types for less than $30 used in my area.

GpsFrontier 09-15-2011 12:41 AM

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The materials have arrived!!!

The Home Depot load came as promised today. I had a lot of fun breaking it all down and moving it. All the black corrugated tubing is for the Sub "T" system. All the OSB board is for the hydroponic system. And the 2x4's are for both the greenhouse framing, as well as the hydroponic system support structure. I will be needing more 2x4's and other wood, but I can get them later because they fit in the car. I just wanted to add the bulk of what I'll need to the truck load because we were paying for the delivery anyway. The 20 pieces of 10 foot electrical conduit is for the greenhouse structure. The completely shrink wrapped pallet is mostly my moms stuff, with 14 bags of cement and hardware for the vinyl fence (I get to put up too). Though that pallet also had a box of my stuff on it with the 45 and 90 degree elbows for the electrical conduit. The whole pallet between the corrugated tubing and the 10 foot electrical conduit is all my moms stuff. It's the vinyl fence posts as well as the fencing. The ground breaking begins in 3 days (Saturday). I'll start a new thread to show the actual construction progress.


You got a great deal on those 55 gallon drums. I can't find those types for less than $30 used in my area
Ya, I would have got more of them just because they were so cheep, but we couldn't get any more in the truck and trailer. The guy I went with also got 4 of them too, and he wasn't even planing on buying anything. In total we brought back three 275 gallon totes, and ten 55 gallon barrels.

fintuckyfarms 09-15-2011 05:30 AM

I'm so excited for you!

GoodGilligan 09-17-2011 07:48 AM

Looking good, looks like you have some serious construction work ahead of you.


GpsFrontier 09-20-2011 05:17 AM

Progress continued in this thread: http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/for....html#post8296

Anthony 09-07-2012 06:07 AM

This is really amazing i think you are ready for construction at here i just want to ask you that what kind of map that you have been decided to made there
because i am a constructor so i just want to know about your plan....

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