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Hydrogen Peroxide?


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Old 10-08-2009, 07:42 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Default Hydrogen Peroxide?

I am looking into using "hydrogen peroxide" in the new hydroponic systems I am building. While looking into it I have read something about using "food grade hydrogen peroxide." I am wondering if there is a difference between a food grade hydrogen peroxide and the hydrogen peroxide that you find in the pharmacy first aid section for putting on cuts. Also, if the first aid hydrogen peroxide is something I should avoid using.

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Old 10-09-2009, 09:47 AM
HydroACR HydroACR is offline
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From what I've read there are different strengths and the drug store solutions are pretty weak. They are also stabilized with some other ingredients that might not help out the plants. Maybe try sourcing it from where science labs buy their chemicals from?
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:48 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
I am looking into using "hydrogen peroxide" in the new hydroponic systems I am building. While looking into it I have read something about using "food grade hydrogen peroxide." I am wondering if there is a difference between a food grade hydrogen peroxide and the hydrogen peroxide that you find in the pharmacy first aid section for putting on cuts. Also, if the first aid hydrogen peroxide is something I should avoid using.
Actually, if it is labeled hxdrogen peroxide at 35%, it should be H2O2 and nothing else. Otherwise, or if there are any additives, - they should figure on the label. Low concentration H2O2 may use some stabilizers, but I've read studies where "stabilzed" low concentration H2O2 was used to disinfect setups .

As it is a powerful disinfectant and antiseptic, it kills every living organism but the plants, if used in the right concentration (dilution).

Though, if using hxdrogen peroxide one should be aware that all micro organisms in the systems get killed- also beneficial organisms or fungus die. As I add Trichoderma harzianum to my reservoirs, I am obviously avoiding the use of H2O2.

Last edited by Luches; 10-10-2009 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:56 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I just thought I would post an update in case it helps anyone. I had e-mailed General Hydroponics with the same exact question and there response was:

"Hello,
I think the only difference is the concentration. Food grade is 10 times stronger. It is also ten times more expensive.
Thanks"

I am not concerned with the concentration because I won't be using that much to go to the time and effort of finding a source for the 35% concentration. One bottle of the 3% from walmart for $1.06 will probably last 6 months. If not whats another $1.06.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:59 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default h2o2

The drug store stuff in a small system is perfect, the 35% stuff will burn your skin. seems like every time use the stuff i get some on me. very bad stuff at full strenght.
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:17 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Originally Posted by watercatwn6535nd View Post
The drug store stuff in a small system is perfect, the 35% stuff will burn your skin. seems like every time use the stuff i get some on me. very bad stuff at full strenght.
Try it on your hair, to see how tough it is
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Old 02-07-2010, 03:25 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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i think its also used in www.gofast.com jet pack. they spray it acroos some type of metal and it turns to steam and produces the equevelent of 800 hp for a couple minutes. very cool flying videos
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Old 02-07-2010, 03:52 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by watercatwn6535nd View Post
i think its also used in www.gofast.com jet pack. they spray it acroos some type of metal and it turns to steam and produces the equevelent of 800 hp for a couple minutes. very cool flying videos
The links not working for me.
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:11 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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JET P.I. - Jetpack International - Home of the Go Fast JetPack try this one. the cool part is there is no combustion so there is no pollution.
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Old 02-07-2010, 06:15 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by watercatwn6535nd View Post
JET P.I. - Jetpack International - Home of the Go Fast JetPack try this one. the cool part is there is no combustion so there is no pollution.
That works.

Not sure If you know but the "about us" page of the site was what the link was to. It didn't tell me anything about the fuel used, but I just back tracked to their homepage.
JET P.I. - Jetpack International - Home of the Go Fast JetPack

The video on the home page did say what they were using the 90% (very unstable giving it a short shelf life, I'm sure,) hydrogen peroxide on precious metals for the chemical reaction for the thrust. I checked out a few of the videos in the gallery section of the site. I must say I am very impressed with how much control he has, landing that softly on a dime. The only problem is he only has about 30 seconds of fuel if I understand correctly. Not sure it will ever become that useful due to the short fuel time, and the use of the precious metals making it expensive. But that's how good ideas start. Taking an idea, making it work, then refining it to be efficient.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:53 AM
one800fish one800fish is offline
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Default Hydrogen Peroxide

As I understand it ( ? ) hydrogen peroxide is used to kill off any pathogens in the system.

The drug store peroxide contains preservatives and clearly states not for internal use.
The food grade peroxide is quite expensive and has a short shelf life.

Copper tubing also kills off pathogens and is a one time purchase.
So, I installed copper tubing between my pump and plastic tubing (about a foot of it) and it seems to works pretty well.

Just my two cents worth.
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Old 10-15-2010, 04:08 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello one800fish,
Yes hydrogen peroxide is not to be ingested by humans, but that doesn't mean it's toxic, just that it can cause problems for people if they drank it. Plants and humans are not the same thing either.

Although hydrogen peroxide will kill pathogens and all micro-organisms (depending on how much you use), that's not my reason for using it in my hydroponic systems. I would rather use ultraviolet (UV) light for that. I add hydrogen peroxide to the solution to add dissolved oxygen to the water (even when using an air pump and stone). I add the hydrogen peroxide at one teaspoon (5mL) per gallon, that's a ratio of 758 to 1, not enough to harm the plants (except maybe seedlings), but still provide more oxygen for the roots. And yes it does help keep the growth of pathogens and micro-organisms (both good and bad) down.

I don't consider hydrogen peroxide to be much of an expense at all, one quart is enough for 189 gallons of nutrient solution, and only cost me $1.06 at Wal-Mart (about $1.35 at the grocery store). Also I have yet to see a bottle of hydrogen peroxide that has any preservatives in it. If you read the label (both "Active Ingredients" and "Inactive Ingredients") there is nothing more than "hydrogen peroxide H2O2 (3%)" and "putrefied water" in the bottle.

P.S. As for me I don't believe copper kills pathogens, even if there was some truth to it, there would be a lot of variables in using it as to weather it was efficient at all. The water company certainly doesn't think copper kills pathogens. Houses are built with copper tubing inside the walls for both hot and cold lines, and it doesn't kill pathogens there. That's why the water company uses chemicals like chlorine to do that. If pathogens are a big concern, I would recommend using UV light. UV light has been used to purify water for about 100 years, and without adding any chemicals to the water either. Also easy to build/waterproof, and can be placed in the reservoir or in a inline overflow tube.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:39 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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peroxide is a life saver if used correctly in your system. dont get the 30% stuff on your skin as it will burn the shit out of you (terrible stuff). The copper isnt going to do anything but turn green and look terribe. I have some in a old system the i use peoxide in. peroxide is not for every nute type though so if your using gh go ahead but if your using some thing that is alive like a tea or organic nute it will kill your nute. if you dont know what i'm talking about read about about it and dont use it tell you understand what is happening becuase its a instant action and a bacteria killing machine.
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:39 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
but if your using some thing that is alive like a tea or organic nute it will kill your nute.
Yes thanks watercatwn6535nd, that's very true. Compost teas and organic nutrients rely on beneficial bacteria and microbes to break them down, and the hydrogen peroxide cant tell the difference between good and bad ones, it will just kill them all. So will the UV light. If using teas and/or organic nutrients, instead of trying to kill the pathogens, you may want to add beneficial microbes to the solution. If the beneficial bacteria and microbes in the system are much more abundant than the bad, they will keep them in check and your not likely to have problems with pathogens multiplying out of control.
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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 10-15-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:43 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Gps,

Just reading your post made me think of a extra UV light i took out of a old hut tub. I have never researched it but that may be a great way to keep algea down and stop small emmiters from clogging? what do you know about it.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:36 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watercatwn6535nd View Post
Just reading your post made me think of a extra UV light i took out of a old hut tub. I have never researched it but that may be a great way to keep algea down and stop small emmiters from clogging? what do you know about it.
UV light is a form of low radiation (below X rays), it's safe for humans (that's what they use in tanning beds), but deadly to micro-organisms. Basically once the micro-organisms are subjected to the light, they die almost instantly. Not exactly instantly though, and some organisms take just a little longer to kill than others, but die within a few seconds rather than minutes (depending on light intensity). Once the water/nutrients are not under the light anymore, micro-organisms will be able to grow again. That's why UV light treatments generally recirculate the water continually under the light, killing any new organisms that may grow. Basically it would be able to keep the water/nutrient solution free of the algae and any organisms with enough UV light. It wont be able to keep the emitters themselves from algae growing on them because they are not under the light. But it can help keep them from clogging, simply from algae buildup in the reservoir getting in the lines then clogging the emitters.

There are a few things to consider when using UV light treatment, one is that (like any light) it will only penetrate the water so far before it's diminished to much, second is what commercial UV light treatment setups call a flow rate. That's basically how long the light is subjected to the water/nutrients as it flows through a tube under the light (compared to how much water flows past). Also the light won't be able to penetrate as well if the water is cloudy or murky.

I have not built one yet but would be fairly simple, and I see two ways of doing it. One, a UV light or series of UV lights at the top of a tube or channel (like a rain gutter, or PVC tube) that kills the organisms as it flows through (to or from the reservoir) with the water depth about an inch. The other is a UV light in the reservoir itself, like attached to the lid or shining through a hole in the lid. Either way just make sure the light is protected from moisture or it may short out. Also make sure it's ventilated so you don't have heat build up, shouldn't be much the light tubes are basically the same as a florescent light tube. The light wont be able to penetrate all the way down to the bottom of the reservoir, but as the water is pumped through the hydroponic system it should circulate the water enough to keep it free of any organisms because the whole reservoir is it's continuously subjected to the light.

Here's a couple of links that I still had bookmarked on UV light treatment
Water treatment options
Ultraviolet Disinfection Technology
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:59 AM
one800fish one800fish is offline
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Good info guys..clearly peroxide is benefical in more ways than killing pathogens
......also I have copied and pasted below another opinon (and the link to it) concerning the drug store peroxide as well as the benefits of using peroxide.

Using Hydrogen Peroxide in your Hydroponics Growing System

Using Hydrogen Peroxide in your
Hydroponics Gardening System


There are no doubts about the benefits of using hydrogen peroxide properly in a hydroponics system. This becomes especially true if your nutrient reservoir is kept above 72 degrees. Warm water holds less dissolved oxygen, and therefore encourages the growth of more viruses, fungi, and anaerobic bacteria. Using hydrogen peroxide adds oxygen to you water and cleans the water of pathogens. Benefits include healthier root systems, increased nutrient uptake, thicker stems, and bigger leaves.



One expert claims it should be used on all soil gardens as well as in hydroponics sytems. Knowing as much as I do about beneficial fungus and micro-organisms and the benefits they provide to living plants, I am shy in taking this advice. However, when this first line of defense fails and plants become sick I often resort to using hydrogen peroxide treatments on my soil grown plants.



The chemical formula for hydrogen peroxide is H2O2. You may notice it is simply water with an extra oxygen atom. In fact, as hydrogen peroxide breaks down in a solution the result is oxygen and water. Its application helps deliver oxygen to over watered plant roots and helps to sterilize the growing media by killing harmful anaerobic (not oxygen compatible) bacteria and pathogens that cause disease. This includes bacterial wilt, pythium fungi, fusarium fungi, and others.




Using 3% Hydrogen Peroxide
In your Hydroponics Garden
I avoid using hydrogen peroxide you commonly find at drug stores. This is because such low percentage (3%) solutions are unstable, and chemicals are added to the peroxide to keep it from breaking down before it can be used. I did a little research because I did not know what chemicals were used for this, or if the plants uptake these chemicals, or if there was a health risk associated with any of these stabilizing chemicals.


Hydrogen peroxide is usually stabilized with acetanilide. Acetanilide is a synthetic compound that was first used for its fever reduction and pain killing properties in the late Nineteenth Century. For many years it was utilized as an alternative to aspirin to treat various ailments, but large scale medical use stopped when the toxic side effects of consuming acetanilide became apparant. This was enough to convince me to use 35% hydrogen peroxide instead.




Using 35% Hydrogen Peroxide
In your Hydroponics Garden
Firstly, 35% peroxide is caustic and should be treated with the same caution as a strong acid. 35% strength hydrogen peroxide should be readily available at any quality hydroponics supply shop. The stronger concentrations do not use the added stabilizers.


The recommended dosage is to add 2-3 ml to each gallon of water, however, I use 5 ml per gallon and have never had any problems. At every nutrient change treat your fresh water using hydrogen peroxide. The general idea is to let the hydroponics system circulate the hydrogen peroxide solution for about a half hour to let the peroxide work against pathogens and to let the solution stabilize before adding your nutrients.



The beneficial effects of using hydrogen peroxide last about 4 days. There are some gardeners who add a little peroxide to their nutrient reservoirs every 5 days in between nutrient changes. If you decide to do this, stick to the guidelines and always make sure your solution is thoroughly mixed before exposing your plants roots to it. Another option is to top off your nutrient reservoir with peroxide treated water whenever it is low.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:37 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I disagree with the link in that the clam of chemicals used to stabilize the 3%. I have never seen any proof of that, including that link. If there were anything in it the federal law would require it to be on the label. And both "active ingredients" as well as Inactive ingredients" are both listed. If "purified water" needs to be listed, any chemical would need to be listed as well (active or inactive). The only difference between the 3% and the 35% is that the 35% is ten times stronger, it's also 10 times more expensive and harder to find.
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:34 PM
NorEastFla NorEastFla is offline
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I've had such great results without using the peroxide, I think I'll pass.

It's that old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing.

I'll include it as a test in my outdoor hydroponics this coming year.

Last edited by NorEastFla; 10-18-2010 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:32 AM
one800fish one800fish is offline
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Default Hydrogen Peroxide

I see now why I was confused about stabilizers. I checked out various suppliers of hp and their MSDS's. Most do contain stabilizers. However, the brand I picked up at Wal-Mart is mfg'd by Aaron Industries.Their MSDS shows no stabilizers.
http://www.aaronindustriesinc.com/MS...n_peroxide.pdf

GpsFrontier is right again.

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