Stackable ebb and flow?

[fintuckyfarms]

So I have been searching the web, checking out the different systems out there and I have a question for those with way more knowledgable then me.

In an ebb and flow system if your reservoir is large enough, can you stack the grow trays so that the top one "waterfalls" into the next lower tray say maybe 3 or 4 trays above the reservoir? Not right on top of each other but off set. My concern would be that the plants will use up the nutrients before they get to the bottom tray. Is this a valid concern? Has anybody seen anything like that?

[crad]

well I have one made out of rain gutter and it flows through 4 gutters before reaching the reservoir and i have no issues.

[GpsFrontier]

Hello fintuckyfarms,
Don't worry about the top plants using the nutrients up before the lower plants. If that were an issue or even possible, recirculating systems would not work. In other words if the nutrients were used up after the first pass through the system, there would be no point in circulating it through the system again because by the time you pumped it back up to the top plants it would be all used up. At the same time you would need to worry about the very first plant in a single row using up all the nutrients first as well, but it just dosen't happen that way.

The issue you will need to deal with in a stacked flood and drain system is pluming. That is getting each level to flood to the desired level, then drain back into the reservoir evenly. But it can be worked out one way or another.

[Twilly]

I saw a system years ago made of 4 inch PVC.... At the end of each pipe, these was a dam to cause the pipe to fill about half way up... then it would over flow thru a U shaped pipe down to the next layer of pipe where there was another dam... I think it was 5 tiers, all vertical and mounted to a wall... Good if you dont have a lot of room

[fintuckyfarms]

Thanks for the ino everybody. I guess I was thinking that unlike a NFT system where the nutes just flow past, the ebb and flow actually sits there for a while soaking into everything. I sure am learning lots here! Thanks everybody

[GpsFrontier]

OK, well Twilly's post got me thinking about how to run the pluming for a vertical flood and drain system. The problem is with a typical flood and drain system the water is siphoned back into the reservoir when the pump shuts off, but that wont work in a multi-level setup using just one pump. The top level would siphon back but the lower levels wont. So I came up with a way to run it so all the levels will drain when the pump shuts off, and only one pump is needed to flood the very top tube, and it just overflows into the lower levels flooding them as well.

But the key is that it dosen't rely on the water siphoning back through the pump at all. Each tube has its own "small drain line" that goes directly back to the reservoir. But the key there is that the small drain line is small enough that when the pump floods the tube, the pump fills the tube faster than the small drain line can drain the water. Then when the pump shuts off the small drain line will continue to drain the tube until its empty.

In each tube at the opposite end of where the water fills it, is a much larger overflow tube. This large overflow tube determines the height of the water level in it, and should be large enough so that the water can drain much faster than the tube can fill up. That way it will never overfill, and spill out of the holes with your plants in it. Each of these large overflow tubes drains down into the tube below it, continuing to flood each lower tube until it reaches the bottom level, then from there the large overflow tube just drains back to your reservoir.

That's the simplest way I can think of for running a vertical flood and drain system using just one pump. But depending on the height of the top tube in your system (from the pump in the reservoir), you'll just want to make sure you have a pump that can pump enough water high enough to flood all the tubes adequately. You can use any materials to build the system, so you don't need to fallow the diagrams exactly. The basic principal is that each level drains back to the reservoir through it's own small drain line, that drains slower than the tube fills up. Then the larger overflow tube sets the water level and wont allow it to overfill, at the same time the overflow tube drains down into the level below it, flooding that level too.

[crad]

I like your thumbnails. what program are you using? and I can see you computer skills are pretty good.

[fintuckyfarms]

Wow! What an awesome idea, thanks for taking so much time to create that drawing. It really helps me to see it all layed out like that. That design has definately gone to the top of my list. (That is if I have any plants to go in it anytime soon)

[GpsFrontier]

It really helps me if I can visualize a system as well. It also helps point out potential problems in the design, and/or my ideas before I build it. As well as makes it easier to see ways to make it better and/or more efficient. Before I spend the money to build it. I love coming up with new designs, I have way more designs than I have money to build. But it's free to draw them up. I use a free 3D drawing program called Google Sketchup to make the drawings. It's pretty easy to use, but does take some getting used to. They also have some video instruction on how to use the program. you basically make one drawing in 3D, then you can zoom in or out, and rotate it to any angle you want, as well as add text if you want. Then you export as many angles as you want of the drawing as a 2D jpg. image. You just click "File" then scroll down to "export" and pick "2D Graphic," then just save it to any folder you want. You can save the 3D drawings as well, but other people wont be able to view them unless they have the Google sketchup program installed on their computer.

When I make drawings I will save it early in the drawing, then use the "save a copy as" option at different times as I progress in making the complete drawing. That way I have the drawings saved in different stages, rather than just the one saved as it was the last time I was working on it. Also if I want to go back to an earlier version, I don't need to erase all I did after that, And if I do something different with it, I still have the original copy saved. I can also easily compare both side by side.

I have downloaded and installed another free 3D program 3DCrafter, but I haven't really used it. I started a couple of times, but I'm just so used to Google sketchup, and haven't really wanted to take the time to learn how to use the 3D crafter program yet.