Stuck in China with no hydroponic nutrient

[shadoh6]

Hello all,

This site has been invaluable in helping out amateurs such as myself, but at the moment I am stuck in a country that has barely any idea of hydroponics, so finding supplies has been an arduous journey!

I've managed to secure sources for every major component except nutrient solution. I also know that nutrient solution can be made, although I would like to not worry about pouring sulphuric acid and melting something organic like my hand. With that said, I do have access to three kinds of "professional quality water soluble fertilizer" with the following NPK: 30-10-10, 18-18-18, 10-52-10. Using one or a combination of these, what additional micronutrients would I need to make a complete nutrient solution (ideally for growing peppers and tomatoes)?

[Mathmattx]

I dont think so! The problem is mainly with the solubility. The solubility of commercial fetilizer varies greatly. But in theory...Besides the three major nutrients you've got in reg. fertilizer, called macronutrients (nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus), a good home-made hydroponic fertilizer will also contain sulfur, calcium, and magnesium. Several important micronutrients including manganese, copper, boron, cobalt, iron, zinc, and molybdenum are also required for healthy growth of most hydroponic plants.


Since commercially available fertilizers are commonly meant for soil-borne plants, they lack many of the above listed important micronutrients. A hydroponic cultivator can (in theory), however, convert a commercial fertilizer into a home-made hydroponic fertilizer by adding the essential micronutrients contained in chemical substances of daily household use.

For most hydroponic plants, which develop roots, the cultivator can add one quarter of a teaspoon of Epsom salt to 400 ppm Maxsea 3-20-20 (1 level teaspoon per gallon of tap water) in order to make a good home-made hydroponic fertilizer. It can be fed to the plant for ten days after it develops its first roots.

After the first ten days since the appearance of roots, 600 ppm Maxsea 16-16-16 (equal to one rounded teaspoon) should be used as a hydroponic fertilizer with one quarter of a teaspoon of Epsom salt added to each gallon. When the plant enters its flowering stage, a rounded half teaspoon Maxsea 3-20-20 should be mixed with a rounded, half teaspoon of Maxsea 16-16-16 in each gallon of water and one quarter of a teaspoon of Epsom salt should be added to each gallon. In the last two weeks before harvesting, the hydroponic plants should be fed with plain water.

Again...would only do this in desparation DO NOT RECOMEND IT. by the time you do all this better to ship some actual hydro ferts from somewhere!!!!

[shadoh6]

Pardon my ignorance, but is Maxsea a commercial soil fertilizer? Right now my main problem is that I can't get anything that people recommend online since I live in China where there's a local brand for everything, and yet the local fertilizers (except for one brand) fail to mention what's inside chemically.

From the fertilizers I've listed, are any of them possible candidates for tinkering with Epsom salt and other chemicals? Which one should I use as the base? What other chemicals do I need besides Epsom salt? (Chemicals, surprisngly<unsurprisingly?> should be a lot easier to come by)

[HydroACR]

anything you can purchase on ebay?

[Mathmattx]

chemistry is eAsy enough...your problem is not going to be the chemistry, but the reliAble evaluation of what you have. Unfortunatly, again you can't accuratly gauge concentrations, measure salts or solubility without some basic equipment, that I am supposing you can't get in china, otherwise you could get hydro ferts. As you already know, biggest concern should be chemical contaminNts like etheltheyne glycol, melamine, other?

[Mathmattx]

Nevertheless I will post 2 "chemical recipies" tonight when I get home, along with some needed equipment and directions.

[kakaze]

I used to live in China as well, and the difficulty in finding certain items that I took for granted in the states was very annoying!

As far as hydroponic nutrients go, maybe I can help.

Plants need 6 macronutrients. These are Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K), Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg) and Sulfur (S). The "NPK" that you see on the fertilizer bags stands for "Nitrogen - Phosphorus - Potassium". Even if it were water-solubal, you'd probably still need to add calcium, magnesium, and sulpher.

In addition to the above, plants also need a small amount of Iron (Fe), Boron (B), Manganese (Mn), Zinc (Zn), Copper (Cu), Molybdenum (Mo) and Chlorine (Cl).

The simplest home-made hydroponic nutrient solution that I've heard of is a compost tea made out of composted chicken manure. I don't know about the availability of composted chicken manure in China & Hong Kong, but I do know that chickens are popular there, so it's possible. If you make a chicken compost tea, you might want to add nitrogen and phosphorus. Some plants, such as tomatoes and strawberries, need a lot of nitrogen, and phosphorus is important for any flowering/fruiting plant.

On a side note; most soil fertilizers use Urea and Sulfate of Ammonia as sources of nitrogen. These do not work well in hydroponics because they need bacteria to break them down before plants can absorb them. Instead, you should use Ammonium Sulfate or Sodium Nitrate.

The recipes that I've found for home-made solutions are:

Potassium Nitrate 9 oz (255 grams) - Also called Saltpeter
Calcium Sulphate 7 oz (198 grams) - Plaster of Paris
Magnesium Sulphate 6 oz (170 grams) - Epsom Salts
Monocalcium Phosphate 4 oz (113 grams)
Ammonium Sulfate 1.5 oz (43 grams) - Principle source of Nitrogen in recipe
Iron Sulphate - Use a pinch only; maybe 1/2 t

Grind each chemical up and mix together well. Use 1 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Another recipe is:

Sodium Nitrate 12.5 oz (355 grams) - Nitrogen
Potassium Sulphate 4 oz (113 grams) - Potassium, Sulphur
Super Phosphate 5 oz (142 grams) - Phosphate, Calcium
Magnesium Sulphate 3.5 oz (100 grams) - Magnesium, Sulphur
Iron Sulphate – 1 pinch (2 grams) - Iron

Once again, use 1 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Here is another recipe solely for trace elements:

Manganese Sulphate 1 t
Boric Acid powder 1 t
Zinc Sulphate 0.5 t
Copper Sulphate 0.5 t

These can all be found in mineral vitamins at a health store.

When needed add 0.5 tsp to 1 quart water and mix well. Add 1 liquid oz of this solution to 3 gallons of your plant nutrients solution from above. This solution will not keep past one day, so use the remainder to water any "in-soil" plants you may have around.

I have not tried any of these recipes yet, so I have no idea how well they work. If you do try one, please let me know!

Hope that helps!

[tufekoa]

Hi luche, Hi kakaze,

Thanks for your previous answers they have put me on the right track and gave a bit of hope.
I am growing tomatoes with children in china.
We are using NPK soil nutrients with an obscure micronutrient solution.(no details on the quantity of iron zinc borum)
20-20-20 vegetive and 10-30-20 flower.
The results are variable but mostly tremendous veg groth with little production and premature plant casualties.(yellow from the tip of the the leaves and generally a drying up of plants)
It like if the plants can not retain the water properly in the flower stage.
More over the flowering stage takes ages and the plant just grow bigger.

Any way I was wondering if kakaze your solution would work for tomatoes?
Luche globalization is strange for sure: many articles made here are never sold here. I'm interested in a formula that i could submit to the city chemist.

Bests,

Tuff

Ps : I have purchased some general hydroponics during a trip that I am trying out on a small batch.
They seem okay but it's ridiculously expensive for our larger setting.

[kakaze]

Like I said, I've not tried either of the recipes yet. In fact, I'm just getting into hydroponics myself, so anything anyone here says that contradicts me is probably more correct.

According to this site:

Reasons Why Tomato Plants Leaves Turn Yellow

tomato plants yellow due to a lack of nitrogen, sunshine, or water. Pests & fungus can also cause yellowing. Too much nitrogen usually gives abundant foliage growth, but poor fruiting. Check to make sure they're getting enough water and try giving them a bit less nitrogen and a bit more phosphorus (if you can't find Phosphorus, grind up some eggshells and bake them until they just start turning brown. eggshells contain about 1% nitrogen, about 0.5% phosphoric acid.

If they're not getting enough sun, you may want to supliment them with a flourescent light (if you can't find one for plants, get one that says "cool white"; it's got more blue in it, which is what plants need to grow). You could also try an LED growlight. Here's a company in Hong Kong that sells them for a good price (no, I'm not affiliated):

Besthongkong - Eastern LED Source Shop: Loose LED, High Power LED, Car Auto LED, LED Light Bulbs, LED Strips, LED Flashlight, LED Module LED Growing Lights

If you do try the chicken manure compost tea, you may have trouble with clogging in an aerophonic system. If it were me, I'd grow the plants in aquarium gravel (you should be able to find one of those "wet markets" that sells pets & pet supplies pretty easily) with a drip-feed system.

Something else to keep in mind; are your tomatoes all female, or all male? If they're mixed, do they get any kind of breeze blowing past them to spread pollen? No pollen = no fruit.

[shadoh6]

As an update to my ancient post on not being able to find nutrients in China, after much time and effort, I have secured a source for a proven, international brand hydroponic nutrient, other hydroponic additives (silica, PK boosters, etc.) and even specialized equipment (HID lighting, PPM meters, etc.), so if anybody is interested in buying this in China, then PM me.

[pengyou]

I also live in China, in Shenzhen. Taobao has almost everything - maybe everything you need to do hp gardening.

[bigwhale]

Maybe you could leave China and goto another country that has nutes??