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  #21  
Old 11-27-2009, 03:40 PM
OChydro OChydro is offline
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I am not sure what you are referring to here. If you are referring to the picture of the strawberry's, I only have the image I found online. I don't know where it was taken. Though I am guessing it is a N.F.T. type system because most commercial systems are. Personally I took note of the square tubing, it may in fact be not be square tubing but say drain gutters on angle. But I was impressed with the way the plants are at an angle to allow two rows of plants in the same space as one if they were straight up instead. I will be using the square tubing to get the same effect.
I was referring to the picture of the growing strawberries. I thought it might be a 5 in. square tube, rotated 45 degrees onto one of the edges and then held in that position. Then 2 1/2 holes drilled on the two sides that are facing in the upward direction. The holes could be cut in a staggered fashion, one to the left and then one to the right and so on, say 4 to 6 inches apart. Then you should be able to mimic what the picture shows. Is this what you are describing for your future system? Because the square tube is not laying flat I would imagine NFT would not work so well because the roots would not be able to hang directly on the flat bottom but would hit the lower sides of the square tube and the nutrient solution would be running in the bottom V formed by the two downward facing sides of the square tube. I would think that ebb and flow would probably be best but it could only fill as high as the low point of the 2 1/2 in hole So maybe ebb and flow isn't so good after all. I like your idea of the staggered left/right plants. What is your idea around these problems?

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This varys depending on what type system I am using, what growing medium I am using in it as well as the temperature. Also on what the timer is capable of. The tomatoes are set at 30 on and 30 off all day and at night 30 on twice during the night. The others are using the same timer and the time ranges from 1 hr on to 1 1/2 hr on with no more than 1hr off at any time until dark. It goes on once at night from 11:30pm to 1:00 am. The goal is to make sure the roots never become dry.
It sounds like your timer is fairly sophisticated. It sounds like it has multiple receptacles and each can be set to a different schedule. If so please let me know the brand name and I'll check it out. Sounds like it solves the problem of needing multiple timers.

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The way the through hole works is, you cut a hole just slightly bigger than the threaded end in what ever you are using. Then place the O ring over the side with the threads. Then stick the the threaded end through the hole you made, and screw on the nut from the other side and tighten down. The O ring provides a water tight seal. I attached some pictures of anther project to give you an idea of what I mean. I haven't taken pictures of what I mean by inserting the 1/2 inch tubing but I will try to tomorrow.
I reread your post and I think I finally understand the tube going through the electrical fitting and moving it up or down to changes the height obviously and hence the water level. You are mounting it in the "bottom of the tube", correct?

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  #22  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:43 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Couple things I just wanted to throw out there before I forget. LOL!

The Fence Post cover I bought and used on that NFTsystem was from fleet farm (not sure if there are any out by you) and it was I think 16 bucks for a 8 foot piece...not to bad, and it's thick enough it's light tight also. I wouldn't use it again, but it wasn't to bad cost wide.
I did have emitters on the ends of those small 1/4 hoses that go through the top, they both sprayed the younger plants as mentioned, and feed the NFT. There is a Name for this type of NFT system but I can't remember it.
I have been working on setting up a large scale lettuce NFT system with 200 placements, for this I used vinyl Rain Gutter Down Spouts and cut 2" holes in it for 2" net cups. It's a bit deeper then I'd like,and of course, once I got done drilling all the hose, I found shallower stock available. They were under 3 dollars for a 10' length.
Also, I wanted to add about the air diffusers in the reservoir...
1) it helps to pull gases to the top as in an aquarium,
2) while doing so it creates surface movement in the reservoir helping to get are into the fluid, again as in nature and aquariums, surface to air exposure is very important.
3) it bring fresh air into your reservoir and which if you have a more eclosed system, is a pretty good idea.

Something I remember also, and is also why I asked about them being started plants or bought. When I first set up that NFT I used store bought soil plants, rinsed them near to death to get as much soil off as I could.
I had to completely flush my system out after that, I don't remember how long it took, but it really messed things up. So completely flushed out my system with bleach and water, fresh nutrients, and put the plants back in..and didn't have anymore problems after that. I don't remember if my roots got that bad, I do remember yanking nasty handfuls off and rinsing the remaining roots realy good before putting them back in.
I did not have the plants in the system while bleaching..just want to make that clear. ;-)

Hope any or all of that helps.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2009, 07:12 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I was referring to the picture of the growing strawberries. I thought it might be a 5 in. square tube, rotated 45 degrees onto one of the edges and then held in that position. Then 2 1/2 holes drilled on the two sides that are facing in the upward direction.
Sorry, I don't know the particulars of that image. I found it by doing a search for "growing hydroponic strawberry's" with Yahoo images. I wanted to find out where it was located and such but wasn't able to find anything out. So the picture is all I have to go on. Though the tube should be at 90 degrees for the best positioning. 180 would be upside down and half that is 90. That would put it directly on edge (though I think that is what you meant). I will simply take a long flat piece of wood and draw level 4 inch squares then draw a line from corner to corner then cut out the top triangle of the square to place and hold the tubes in place at the right angle. Then just build the rest if the supports from 2x4's.
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The holes could be cut in a staggered fashion, one to the left and then one to the right and so on, say 4 to 6 inches apart. Then you should be able to mimic what the picture shows. Is this what you are describing for your future system?
Yes, The holes will be closer to 6-7 inches apart for a 5 foot long tube and about 8 inches apart for a 6 foot tube. I would rather it be the 6 foot tube but where and what is available to me is a factor in that decision. If I can get them in 12 foot lengths and cut them in half, I will have the 6 foot pieces but a lot of times tubing is sold in 10 foot lengths. I know one of the pluming supply houses here in town will sell tubing by the foot and even cut it for you. I got some round 6 inch P.V.C. tubing from them before. It was $1.78 a foot.
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Because the square tube is not laying flat I would imagine NFT would not work so well because the roots would not be able to hang directly on the flat bottom but would hit the lower sides of the square tube and the nutrient solution would be running in the bottom V formed by the two downward facing sides of the square tube.
Not quite, a N.F.T. system is not reliant or even defined by a flat surface. It is simply a continuously flowing stream of water with nutrients in it called the Nutreint Film technique. Yes the tubing is on edge creating the V but I can control the height of the nutrient in this V. It only needs to be high enough so the roots can wick up the moisture to the rest of the root ball and growing medium.
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I would think that ebb and flow would probably be best but it could only fill as high as the low point of the 2 1/2 in hole So maybe ebb and flow isn't so good after all.
I will be using 4 inch square tubing and 3 inch baskets, so the holes will be just smaller than 3 inches. Yes, the water level can not rise above where the holes are cut or it will spill out. The placement of the holes is important, they all need to be level with the rest because the water level can only go as high as the lowest one. The baskets wont be completely submerged but the bottom corner will be. That will be enough to allow the growing medium to wick up the moisture and saturate it. Especially because I plan to use the coco chips and they hold moisture quite well.
Quote:
It sounds like your timer is fairly sophisticated. It sounds like it has multiple receptacles and each can be set to a different schedule. If so please let me know the brand name and I'll check it out. Sounds like it solves the problem of needing multiple timers.
I have 2 timers running 3 systems. The tomato's have there own timer and that is the one that is set for 30 on and 30 off. It's nothing much, only cost about $9 at Home Depot. The important part is it is one with built in pins so it has enough of them. It also has a minimum on/off time of 30 minutes. The other timer is a digital timer that was a discontinued one at Home Depot that I got for about $15. It has a minimum on/off time of 1 minute but it only has 14 on/off times per day, 7 on and 7 off. So I may need to be creative to make sure the plants never go dry. Another reason I like using the Coco chips, they hold the moisture well and don't need watering as much. Nether have multiple outlets, the one running 2 pumps I plugged a power strip with 6 outlets into it. That way when the timer goes on it turns on the whole power strip. This is causing a problem though, it trips the GFI from time to time so I need to check it a few times a day.

I do know someone who builds timers. He is currently in the process of getting them in production for selling to the public. They range from a simple cycle timers to fully customizable timers, including hundreds of on off times per day. Even a photo cell so it can tell when it gets light and can go into day mode. Also a backup battery in case of power outages, that's also important because you don't need to re program it when power returns. I plan to advertise his timers on my hydroponic website to help him out. If you are interested I can E-mail him and see if he is ready sell any yet. Last I knew, he was developing a new circuit board that he can use for all models of them to keep costs down. That way he didn't need to have multiple boards made, just a larger quantity of one board. If you are interested send me a private message with an e-mail, so I can send you the info.
Quote:
I reread your post and I think I finally understand the tube going through the electrical fitting and moving it up or down to changes the height obviously and hence the water level. You are mounting it in the "bottom of the tube", correct?
I attached the pictures I took today to show what I mean. The tube goes in from the top and goes in about 3/4 inch to a snug fit. Farther down the hole is actually a smaller size thus stopping the tube from going down any farther. But to lower the level I just need to shorten the tube and reinsert it. The through holes need a flat surface to be water tight, I can use silicone to finish it off on rounded surfaces but don't really want to if I can avoid it. Because the square tubing will be on edge and the V at the bottom the through holes will be slightly to the side on the flat surface, as close to the bottom as I can for the return line. I will also try to get the through holes close to the bottom for the inlet so as much will return back as passable. But because of the V shape, there will always be water/nutrients in the bottom of the V that circulates again when the pump goes on. Probably about an inch or so.

P.S. There is a difference between Coco fiber and Coco chips. Coco fiber has the texture of potting soil and will wash through the holes in the baskets. Coco chips have a texture like small wood chips for your smoker. Some will poke through the holes but 99.99% will stay in the baskets.
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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 11-27-2009 at 07:28 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2009, 07:22 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Something I remember also, and is also why I asked about them being started plants or bought. When I first set up that NFT I used store bought soil plants, rinsed them near to death to get as much soil off as I could.
I had to completely flush my system out after that, I don't remember how long it took, but it really messed things up.
I usually use store bought plants if I can find them because I am just impatient and don't want to wait for seeds. I haven't had that problem yet, though I have noticed if the plants are root bound in the container they are much harder to wash off and clean. Especially without damaging the roots. I don't know if that was in your case but just thought I would mention it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:11 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
I usually use store bought plants if I can find them because I am just impatient and don't want to wait for seeds. I haven't had that problem yet, though I have noticed if the plants are root bound in the container they are much harder to wash off and clean. Especially without damaging the roots. I don't know if that was in your case but just thought I would mention it.
Oh, trust me, I washed them to the point I wasn't sure the plants would survive LOL
I never had that problem again no matter what system, when I started my own seedlings, even in peatpods, which I would not remove when transferring into the hydro systems.

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