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Help: seedling stems dying off.


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Old 03-25-2012, 10:56 AM
ju1234 ju1234 is offline
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Default Help: seedling stems dying off.

First time trying hydroponics. I germinated various seeds in coconut coir + vermaculite. It was done indoor under a light. The seeds germinated fine, the seedling stems growing long (not too long) before they were put outside in day light and later in sun. Many of the seedling stems gradually dried up with leaves still looking good and then seedling just fell over and the whole plant just falls over(only one small real leaves). What might be causing it? Solution? Thanks.

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Old 03-25-2012, 11:41 AM
fintuckyfarms fintuckyfarms is offline
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Sounds like the same thing that happened to mine... Damping off. It happens because they are you wet! Do a search and you should find lots of info.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:20 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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ju1234
Do you have any pictures of the plants and setup? What are you using for the Solution? What's your watering schedule like?
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:46 AM
ju1234 ju1234 is offline
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Fintuckyfarm is right about it. It is damping.

I did not take pictures. Reading the instructions on the coir, it said that it drains well. However when i dug one cell up, i noticed that it is really soaked in water. Since the coir chips are not very compact in the tray, there is too much space between chips. Thinking that the roots may not have good contact with the medium, i was watering it every day, thus keeping it too wet.

I am going to make some changes. Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:47 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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There is no doubt that Fintuckyfarm thoughts may very well be the case. However damping off is a result of suffocating/over watering the roots. It's also very true that coco coir is well draining, but that really depends on how well you design the system. The term "well draining" dosen't mean "self draining". You do need to work with the growing media in the design of the system. Thus the reason I asked for pictures, in order to see if I could see potential problems.

If you don't construct the system well, even using a well draining growing media like coco coir, you can still saturate the roots (suffocating them). But it's usually a simple, and easy fix to drain the system better (depending on how it's built). Think of it like saturating a sponge with water, and placing it on a flat plate. If you took the same sponge and placed it on a wire rack. The sponge on the wire rack would drain (dry out) 10 times faster than the one that had nowhere for the water to drain to. When it comes to seedlings the roots are much more delicate and susceptible to any problems, especially disease and suffocation. If the coco coir is able to wick up water from below, it will remain saturated all the time (like the sponge on the flat plate). Given a gap between the/a water supply and the growing media, coco coir provides the best balance between moisture and oxygen for the roots in most any system.

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Since the coir chips are not very compact in the tray, there is too much space between chips.
That's the absolute wrong way to think of it. Those air gaps are the best thing there is for the roots. The problem is that the coco coir/chips act as a wick. Wicking up moisture from any water it's sitting in (saturating the growing media). Like I mentioned, coco coir is not self draining. You need to make sure the growing media is not sitting in any water. If it's sitting in water it cant drain. If you compact the growing media (reducing the air space for the roots) you just suffocate the roots further. The same way you would suffocate if someone placed a pillow over your face and pressed down (reducing any air gaps). The last thing you want to do (especially for seedlings) is reduce the amount of air the roots get.
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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 03-28-2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:02 AM
ju1234 ju1234 is offline
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Thank you very much for your insight GPS. You make a lot of sense. I am right now out of town, so cannot get any pictures. However, I will tell you a little bit about it. The problem i had happened at the seedling stage. In fact i did water the thing too much. I used 72 cell tray, put coir chips in it with some vermaculite sprinkled over it basically to fill in the spaces and planted all my seeds in it. I put enough water in the bottom solid tray, enough to last for couple of weeks, because i was again going to be out of town. This was in late feb when it was still cold. I put the tray in the garage under lights on a timer. When i came back, many of the seeds had germinated and had sort of long lenky seedlings (not too long). I put the tray outside first in partial sun and then in full sun. At this time i was home so i watered it from below, in the tray. I guess even at this point i did not realize that coir remains saturated for long time. Some of the seedlings started drying up in the stem and toppled over. Even at this time i did not realize that the problem was too much water. Anyway, it was soon time for me to go out of town again (now). So, in a week or so i built my fill and drain system, took me much longer than i envisioned it. System consists of a 40"X48" 16" deep chamber made from wooden pallet. I used an immersible pump to pump nutrient solution from reservoir to the chamber and used a bell siphon device to drain it passively back to the reservoir. Right now I have put it on only once a day fill cycle with pump on for 30 minutes. I planted various sizes of nursery plants and planted them in one gallon containers. Lava rocks in the bottom inch or so, coir chips loosely packed (i did pre-soak and wash them for about 18 hours), and a layer of lava rock on top to keep coir from floating. These containers were set inside the chamber. I also placed the seedlings tray on an elevated surface. At the full fill level, the nutrient solution comes to about half way up the 1 gallon containers and knowing where the roots are in the containers, i know that only bottom 1/2 of the roots will be actually immersed in the solution at the full fill. So, it is about 30 minutes of actual solution dipping. The two days, i observed the system work, it looked good. I don't know what it will be when i get back. once the plants are established, i plan to transfer them in more appropriate size containers depending upon the plant. Thanks.

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