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Over fertilization?


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  #1  
Old 03-11-2009, 10:32 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Default Over fertilization?

I Have been reading the posts and I am a little confused, I have read that the plants will only take up the nutrients they need and leave the rest, on the other hand I have read that browning of the leaves and edges of the leaves can be caused by over fertilization. I don't understand how you can over fertilize if the plants wont absorb more than they need.

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Old 03-12-2009, 02:21 AM
Mathmattx Mathmattx is offline
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Default It not over feet that's the issue

I am assuming this question stems from your other post in which you cite that you accidentialy doubled a concentration. The plant will only draw from available nutrients what it needs so, technically, you can't over fert. Howver, in large, or specific enough concentrations, the nutrients can cause damage to the plant on the celluar level, inhibiting or even destroying it's ability to photosyntheize or preform mitosis. So you can't "over fert" but you can have a nutrient solution that's too "hot", or in which a large concentration of a particular element is having an unwanted chemical reaction binding/or restricting another element or , as aformentioned, interfering with biological a biological process. also excessive nutrient can cause ppm/TDs to increase to a level that causes nutrient lockout, ie brown leaves, etc, etc. Matt- hydroponica.blogspot.com

Last edited by Mathmattx; 03-12-2009 at 05:05 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2009, 02:52 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Default

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Originally Posted by Mathmattx View Post
I am assuming this question stems from your other post in which you cite that you accidentialy doubled a concentration. The plant will only draw from available nutrients what it needs so, technically, you can't over fert. Howver, in large, or specific enough concentrations, the nutrients can cause damage to the plant on the celluar level, inhibiting or even destroying it's ability to photosyntheize or preform mitosis. So you can't "over fert" but you can have a nutrient solution that's too "hot", or in which a large concentration of a particular element is having an unwanted chemical reaction binding/or restricting another element or , as aformentioned, interfering with biological a biological process. also excessive nutrient can cause ppm/TDs to increase to a level that causes nutrient lockout, ie brown leaves, etc, etc
Thanks, That makes scene. I noticed some browning on the edges of some of the leaves and some brown spots that I don't remember seeing the other day when I transplanted them from soil to the Hydro system. So I dumped the tank and flushed it with straight water then dumped that and filled it again with fresh nutrients.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:03 AM
Mathmattx Mathmattx is offline
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Default Measurements

Do you have a pH and/or tds meters? Those will help optimize plant nutrition and help avoid any losses that could otherwise be avoided. If you don't have them and are looking I have some great and very affordable recomendations. For most just the peace of mind of knowing the "exacts" are worth it. Can't tell you how many people I've seen agonize for hours trying to decipher colors on litmus paper or in ph vials, or wonder about nutrient concentrations.
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Old 03-12-2009, 03:36 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by Mathmattx View Post
Do you have a pH and/or tds meters? Those will help optimize plant nutrition and help avoid any losses that could otherwise be avoided. If you don't have them and are looking I have some great and very affordable recomendations. For most just the peace of mind of knowing the "exacts" are worth it. Can't tell you how many people I've seen agonize for hours trying to decipher colors on litmus paper or in ph vials, or wonder about nutrient concentrations.
No I don't have any meters I just have the ph testing drops. I don't know if they are not very accurate but I just checked the new nutrients after I ran the pump for 30min and it looks to be at about 6.0 and from what I have read that is just about right for peppers. I do plan to invest in the meters but right now I just cant spend much more than $20 on them and I'm sure I cant get anything decent for that but in a few months I hope to get them.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Mathmattx Mathmattx is offline
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Default Potential Hydrogen Testing

Science and Medicine have used litmus and chem pH tests for decades with excellent and reliable results. Just takes some patience and training (both of which it seems you have), so that is excellent. As I was reading your posts, etc, the only other issue you may want to get out ahead of is Transpiration and evaporation. You said you live in a very arid climate, is your hydro setup out of doors? Your plants might be prone to excesive transpiration that would certainly require TDS monitoring so you can balance evaporated/transpired H20. I would lastly recomend keping a "log" of all that you do. It will help you learn how adding chemicals, time, temp, etc affect your setup. The idea bening it will get infinitly easier and cheaper as you learn what works, how your plant resond to your water, nutrient, etc, etc. The best log I have found (because i wrote it) can be found at Hydroponica.blogspot.com. Its easy to copy and paste the jpeg or as I say I can e-mail it. Matt- hydroponica.blogspot.com

Last edited by Mathmattx; 03-12-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:42 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by Mathmattx View Post
Science and Medicine have used litmus and chem pH tests for decades with excellent and reliable results. Just takes some patience and training (both of which it seems you have), so that is excellent. As I was reading your posts, etc, the only other issue you may want to get out ahead of is Transpiration and evaporation. You said you live in a very arid climate, is your hydro setup out of doors? Your plants might be prone to excesive transpiration that would certainly require TDS monitoring so you can balance evaporated/transpired H20. I would lastly recomend keping a "log" of all that you do. It will help you learn how adding chemicals, time, temp, etc affect your setup. The idea bening it will get infinitly easier and cheaper as you learn what works, how your plant resond to your water, nutrient, etc, etc. The best log I have found (because i wrote it) can be found at Hydroponica.blogspot.com. Its easy to copy and paste the jpeg or as I say I can e-mail it.
Yes the plants are outside. The temp right now is not bad, we have had a couple of days that have reached 85-88 degrees but for the most part it is about 77-82 degrees right now. That wont last long, by late May and early June it will be over 100 every day. It is not a problem right now but when the temp rises I will need to do something to keep the temperature of the nutrients down. I am not exactly sure what you mean by transpiration but I am guessing that as the water evaporates the concentration of nutrients will rise and unfortunately at this time I have no way of testing this but as I said before I do plan on getting the meters in a couple of months. Another issue that might be of concern, this town is notoriously known for its bad water, especially iron as it turned the river red before they built the dam and created the lake. We do have a water softener, but I am not sure if it leaves traces of salt in the water so I am using the water from the 3 filter drinking water faucet. I can only get about 4 gallons at a time from it though then I need to wait for the tank to fill up again (about 45min) and on Tuesday the 30 strawberry plants I ordered should be here, when I get them transplanted into the Hydro system I made for them I will need about 40 gallons. All together I should have 32 strawberry's 7 pepper's and 3 Herbs. I have built a frame for a shade cloth to cover the strawberry to keep the birds away as well as keep them cooler when it gets hot, I don't know how long they will last when the temp gets over 105 degrees because I have never tried to grow them in Arizona before but when I lived in Calif they did ok all summer with days over 100 but it gets a lot hotter here. I can post some pictures when I get the strawberry's planted. I like the Idea of keeping a log, I have done that before many years ago with some other plants but didn't think of it this time.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Mathmattx Mathmattx is offline
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Default Great Strategies

Great Strategies! Ideally nutrient should be kept between 68-75. Obviously it CAN be kept a little cooler and much warmer than this. You may want to introduce a cooling loop into your system...I took the liberty of sketching one up real quick to give you an idea of one (pardon the crudeness, it was a quickie). It would be built onto your existing system and would only need some more pipe and 2-shutoffs to direct/redirect flow. Obviously you can loop the pipe underground, double back (with some seperation, etc). Only possible consideration from current system is if your pump can handle the increased pressure demand? If you cant dig, can also run this under the crawl space in your house (not most ideal for many reasons, but if you live on rock...it works" Best of Luck Matt-hydroponica.blogspot.com
At anyrate I hope you dont get dioscouraged/feel overwhelmed...this stuff is supposed to be fun and interesting

Last edited by Mathmattx; 03-12-2009 at 06:59 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2009, 07:43 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathmattx View Post
Great Strategies! Ideally nutrient should be kept between 68-75. Obviously it CAN be kept a little cooler and much warmer than this. You may want to introduce a cooling loop into your system...I took the liberty of sketching one up real quick to give you an idea of one (pardon the crudeness, it was a quickie). It would be built onto your existing system and would only need some more pipe and 2-shutoffs to direct/redirect flow. Obviously you can loop the pipe underground, double back (with some seperation, etc). Only possible consideration from current system is if your pump can handle the increased pressure demand? If you cant dig, can also run this under the crawl space in your house (not most ideal for many reasons, but if you live on rock...it works" Best of Luck Matt-hydroponica.blogspot.com
At anyrate I hope you dont get dioscouraged/feel overwhelmed...this stuff is supposed to be fun and interesting
Thanks for the sketch. Ya the ground here is more rock than dirt and makes growing anything in the ground without digging it up with a back hoe first or building a raised bed very difficult. We don't have a crawl space and the garage gets very hot during the day also. I may be able to run it from inside the house some how and use pipe insulation on the outside. I have thought about using blocks of blue ice as long as it is sealed good and I make sure it wont leak but I would need to keep after it all the time because it will get warm fast. I have looked at the JPEG's on your blogspot site for the log and I like it, do you sujest the pdf file or should I just print the JPEG?


Last edited by GpsFrontier; 05-09-2010 at 05:23 AM.
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