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anyone have a hydroponic recipe?


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  #1  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:35 PM
GGM GGM is offline
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Default anyone have a hydroponic recipe?

Hi, can't buy hydroponics where I live and the shipping costs are way to much (pretty much have to pay the price of the solution in shipping costs), so I thought I will try and make my own. Information on the web is pretty scratchy so I am wondering if anyone has a recipe that they would like to share. Thanks.

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  #2  
Old 10-01-2009, 03:58 AM
bowie2003 bowie2003 is offline
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can view this Achiltibuie Garden - hydroponic systems
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2009, 05:23 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie2003 View Post
Thanks, but is a recipe for the solution that I am after, how many grams of Potassium phosphate, Potassium nitrate etc
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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Tell me what you need and I'll make you the recipe with single standard ingredients.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2009, 08:58 PM
GGM GGM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luches View Post
Tell me what you need and I'll make you the recipe with single standard ingredients.
Thanks! I need a grow and flowering formular for tomatoes, even though I can't buy hyroponic nutrients in my country I can buy pretty much every chemical that is used.
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2009, 02:19 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Usually with tomatoes (unlike with other plants) vegetative vs. flowering formulas are not used as such. This is because tomatoes require high Potassium levels and low nitrogen levels all along the growing states, to prevent too much vegetative growth. Some strategies go with very high concentrate formulas, especially for huge plants with high yields. I do prefer a less aggressive strategy and have tested and used it successfully for some time. I've in fact adopted a nutrient strategy from the University of Florida and have modified it (actually simplified from 5 step) to a 2 step strategy.

Do you know how to proceed with 2 component mixes and will you manage to dissolve all salts and components properly and safely in hot water? What about micro nutrients, do you own a scale that can handle weights of 0.1 gr?

In case you know how to handle it anyway, I'll just give you the recipe(s) without any detailed instructions. In case you have no experience, I'd rather give you a few hints...

Is a recipe for 1000 Liter nutrient solution (some 4-5 Liter of each concentrate, A, and B) and using about 2.5 kg of raw materials a good target?

Cheers,
Luches

Last edited by Luches; 10-21-2009 at 02:49 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2009, 07:57 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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Thanks Luches, I did a bit of chemistry at university so I shouldn't have to many problems mixing the salts. As for the weights, I am about to buy some pocket scales from ebay to measure the micronutrients, was going to get .01g up to 100g and just use electronic kitchen scales for the macro nutrients.

Thanks yeah 5 litres of each part should be plenty.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2009, 09:01 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Ok, hang on there, I'll put something together until tomorrow!
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:07 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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OK, I've got it ready in time.
First graphics shows the chart of the 5 step program of the University of Florida, based on their research that tomato (in hydroponic) don't need more than 150 ppm of nitrogen at any state of growth.



And here the RECIPE for the formula of the last stage (for 1000 Liter of final solution) which I actually used successfully. That is as close as you could possibly get "math-wise" without using lots of decimals. But this is not all you need - you probably need a starter formula that you can use until first or even second cluster. But here I need your opinion and cooperation about how you want to proceed. I can calculate any recipe for one of the 5 step formulas and even intermediate formulas. You name it I get you the recipe!



Recipe for 1000 Liter solution or 2 x 5 = 10 Liter Concentrate
All measures of components and ingredients in GRAMM


Please note that this is a rather conservative and low concentration formula at 1.7 EC. There are many other formulas that go much more aggressive! With this formula you need a big enough reservoir or closely monitor EC for sufficiently high concentration and/or top up and change nutrients frequently. Nothing to worry about though, only because it is a economy strategy, it requires good monitoring. PS: I've increased the Phosporus (P) slightly. This is because if used in lower concentration, you still have enough of it. A little more on the other hand (as in this formula) doesn't do any harm! In case you prefer a more "generous" formula, you tell me - I'll modify it in no time... but to reach higher K-rate, you'll need to buy one more raw material called Potassium Sulphate.

Last edited by Luches; 10-22-2009 at 04:46 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2009, 04:16 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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Excellent thanks Luches! I notice you have 0 for both Potassium Sulphate and Diammonium Phosphate, that is if want to increase the Potassim and Phosphate i gather, what about Nitrogen what whould you use if want to increase the nitrogen levels but not calcium?

I will just used this formular for my first grow and see how it goes from there.
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:00 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Hi again,
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGM View Post
Excellent thanks Luches! I notice you have 0 for both Potassium Sulphate and Diammonium Phosphate, that is if want to increase the Potassim and Phosphate i gather,...
Right! Diammonium Phosphate is rather uncommon and expensive, Potassium Sulphate is a classic and often used. The only disadvantage with Potassium Sulphate is that it dissolves very slowly and only in lots of water. In case you'll use it in higher quantities (up to 100 gr per batch), remember to mix like hell, perhaps use a stick- or cocktail mixer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGM View Post
what about Nitrogen what whould you use if want to increase the nitrogen levels but not calcium?
That isn't actually an issue. I used calcium chloride in this formula to increase calcium content, without exceeding Nitrogen. In most cases, Calcium Nitrate provides (amazingly) just the right Nitrogen-calcium requirements. It's mostly about how to provide enough calcium, without getting to high Nitrogen levels. Here our calcium Chloride comes in. But only use it as a additive, as it contains much chloride. Plants do need chloride and can tolerate up to 90-110 ppm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGM View Post
I will just used this formular for my first grow and see how it goes from there.
If you use this as an ONE formula solution (in much lower concentration as 1.7 EC) be aware that calcium, phosphorus, magnesium and Fe are running a bit low. You can start (even germinate) your seedlings with 1.0-1.3 EC without a problem. But do not feed them for too long with that diet, increase it gradually to get to final 1.7 (up to 1.8 if you like) before transplanting them. I have tested it and had best results with 1.2 EC from start for seedlings. Tomato seedlings can be grown with this strength in hot climate. You can use the very same formula up to EC 1.9-2.1 if you want to push - but I wouldn't recommend having higher concentrations, because N-content is getting to high then. In case you want to grow with higher EC, a different formula with higher K content (+ potassium sulphate) is strongly recommended.

Best of luck an cheers!
Luches
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:55 PM
empresarios empresarios is offline
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Default How to calculate NPK Composition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luches View Post
OK, I've got it ready in time.
First graphics shows the chart of the 5 step program of the University of Florida, based on their research that tomato (in hydroponic) don't need more than 150 ppm of nitrogen at any state of growth.



And here the RECIPE for the formula of the last stage (for 1000 Liter of final solution) which I actually used successfully. That is as close as you could possibly get "math-wise" without using lots of decimals. But this is not all you need - you probably need a starter formula that you can use until first or even second cluster. But here I need your opinion and cooperation about how you want to proceed. I can calculate any recipe for one of the 5 step formulas and even intermediate formulas. You name it I get you the recipe!



Recipe for 1000 Liter solution or 2 x 5 = 10 Liter Concentrate
All measures of components and ingredients in GRAMM


Please note that this is a rather conservative and low concentration formula at 1.7 EC. There are many other formulas that go much more aggressive! With this formula you need a big enough reservoir or closely monitor EC for sufficiently high concentration and/or top up and change nutrients frequently. Nothing to worry about though, only because it is a economy strategy, it requires good monitoring. PS: I've increased the Phosporus (P) slightly. This is because if used in lower concentration, you still have enough of it. A little more on the other hand (as in this formula) doesn't do any harm! In case you prefer a more "generous" formula, you tell me - I'll modify it in no time... but to reach higher K-rate, you'll need to buy one more raw material called Potassium Sulphate.
Hello Luches. How did you calculate the N-P-K Mix-Recipe?

Thank you
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2010, 09:45 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empresarios View Post
Hello Luches. How did you calculate the N-P-K Mix-Recipe?

Thank you
With the adequate formulas that transform conventional NPK from components into elemental NPK. Because unfortunately the industry standard in use is cryptic and not actual. After that you need to calculate the elemental percentage of each component provided from molecular weight, - then divide by the amount of water. By the book, so to speak.

Nutrient making is quite an extensive and specific topic, even chemists get confused with it... sometimes. You should wrap your head around it by reading some online instructions and get basic knowledge, as NPK content of common components and how they are used.
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  #14  
Old 03-31-2010, 01:42 PM
empresarios empresarios is offline
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Default Here is the way I'm calculating

Hello Luches. Thank you very much for the valuable information.

Bellow is the way I'm calculating the NPK Recipe for the example of the University of Florida. I write this in order you please to guide me in my calculations

N: 2*14.01*666/236.17 [Ca(NO3)2*4H2O] + 14.01*331/101.1 [KNO3]
= 124.88 ppm vs. 150 ppm you calculated

P: 30.97*250/136.09 [KH2PO4]
= 56.89 ppm vs. 57 ppm you calculated

K: 39.1*331/101.1 [KNO3] + 39.1*250/136.09 [KH2PO4]
= 199.84 ppm vs 200 ppm you calculated

Mg: 24.305*505/246.51 [MgSO4*7H2O]
= 49.79 ppm vs 50 ppm you calculated

Ca: 40.078*94/219.08 [CaCl2*6H2O]
= 17.19 ppm vs 15 ppm you calculated

Cl: 2*35.453*94/219.08 [CaCl2*6H2O]
= 30.42 ppm vs 60 ppm you calculated


Could you plese help me to improve my calculations?


My best.
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Wade Wade is offline
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Default What is the real savings?

Any idea of how much the savings are making you own nutrient mix?
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  #16  
Old 04-07-2010, 11:38 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empresarios View Post
Hello Luches. Thank you very much for the valuable information.
You welcome empresarios! (I believe I have missed this post)
First of all, components cannot be seen as 99.9% pure lab grade chemicals but they actually are of so called fertilizer grade quality. The content of elements may vary slightly or sometimes widely. The important thing here is: know your base material and adopt the maths to them.

Example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by empresarios View Post
N: 2*14.01*666/236.17 [Ca(NO3)2*4H2O] + 14.01*331/101.1 [KNO3]
= 124.88 ppm vs. 150 ppm you calculated
The calcium nitrate mostly in use contains 14.3 Nitrate N AND 1.3 ammoniacal N = total N 15.6
And around 25-30 more ppm of Calcium is provide by CaCl (at least in my formula)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by empresarios View Post
P: 30.97*250/136.09 [KH2PO4]
= 56.89 ppm vs. 57 ppm you calculated

K: 39.1*331/101.1 [KNO3] + 39.1*250/136.09 [KH2PO4]
= 199.84 ppm vs 200 ppm you calculated
Identical I guess, except that I obviously have rounded up the ppm

Quote:
Originally Posted by empresarios View Post
Ca: 40.078*94/219.08 [CaCl2*6H2O]
= 17.19 ppm vs 15 ppm you calculated

Cl: 2*35.453*94/219.08 [CaCl2*6H2O]
= 30.42 ppm vs 60 ppm you calculated
As for calcium chloride, there are truly many grades, ranging from only 75% purity to almost 99%. Use the percentage and purity of each individual product you use. But then again I may be prone to error as well. I could have simply been wrong with this-one. Let me check that again when I have time. But in case the Cl part is only as half as much (as I have calculated), that's good news as you could complement even more Ca through CaCl, without worrying about Cl toxicity.
As for now, either way it's not an issue as only minimal quantities are required and it's actually better to have only 30 ppm of Cl than 60. An error of that range with that quantity isn't actually modifying the formula - here it actually improves it!

I guess that explains it. Your maths are all right, but we have got different base products in some case(s).


PS: as for the savings, Wade, it is a HUGE difference once you are break even with your equipment!


Last edited by Luches; 04-07-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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