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My Very First Setup


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  #21  
Old 10-21-2014, 06:22 AM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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There you go bigdaddy ...light info from am expert ill be taking on board some off that info...thanks.

I still cant understand the heat problem people get with hps like having to use cool tubes and ait venting when people with cfl don't? ....it didn't make sense but your all your info on cost and heat with hps seem correct..

I have 300w of CFL for one plant.....if i was to buy 300w of hps i would fry my plants and id need venting to cool grow box down....?

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  #22  
Old 10-21-2014, 06:47 AM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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Big daddy....alot of people use florescent lights for the veg period then switch to the hps for flower....its an option mate.
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2014, 06:46 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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Hey Tommy Say One My True leaves Not Looking So Hot But Other ones look okay to me (Not Talking About the Seed leaves) Edges Looking Weird Wonder If Im Doing Something Wrong??
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2014, 06:59 PM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy216 View Post
Hey Tommy Say One My True leaves Not Looking So Hot But Other ones look okay to me (Not Talking About the Seed leaves) Edges Looking Weird Wonder If Im Doing Something Wrong??
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in my experience it doesn't look too much to worry about ....keep an eye on them.

It could be a tiny bit of nute burn, or abit of light burn, it could even be where you've been touching them with your fingers ? ........ Not much to worry about but id keep an eye on .
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  #25  
Old 10-22-2014, 07:04 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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Originally Posted by oTOMMYo View Post
in my experience it doesn't look too much to worry about ....keep an eye on them.

It could be a tiny bit of nute burn, or abit of light burn, it could even be where you've been touching them with your fingers ? ........ Not much to worry about but id keep an eye on .
okay I will do,, I also took look at roots they look nice and white reaching way down in bucket however they starting to tangle up a little bit but I keep eye out
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2014, 07:31 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello Bigdaddy216,

My first thoughts are the humidity is still too low at 45%. 65% to 85% is much better for the plants, you just want to stay under 90% as long as you have good air circulation (which the plants need anyway). But I have a few questions that could be other potential issues:

1. What is the pH, and are you checking it daily?
2. What nutrients are you using and are you fallowing manufactures instructions (other than 1/2 strength)? Do you have a link to the nutrients?
3. You made a reference to salt "maybe it because I added some more nutrients and pinch of salt." What type of salt are you referring to? Salt (sodium chloride) is toxic to plants. However Epsom salt is is different. But unless the nutrients your using require adding Epsom salt, that's unnecessary and could raise Magnesium levels to toxic levels as well.
4. How are these plants being watered, and what is the water level in the buckets?
5. If they are on a timer, what is the on/off cycle?
6. Is the top of the growing media moist or dry?
7. Is there a chance there is any tiny water droplets getting on the leaves.
8. Are the plants getting good air circulation?
9. How old are the plants?
10. What is the nutrient solution look like? Is it clear or cloudy? Does it smell bad (musty)?
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2014, 08:38 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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[QUOTE=GpsFrontier;12120]Hello Bigdaddy216,

My first thoughts are the humidity is still too low at 45%. 65% to 85% is much better for the plants, you just want to stay under 90% as long as you have good air circulation (which the plants need anyway). But I have a few questions that could be other potential issues:


Okay Here info u wanted to know
1. Humidifier Run 7am Till 9pm (Bedtime) (Humidity 65 to 71%)
2. Masterblend 4-18-38 (See Link Below)
3. Average Room Temp 75 to 80f & Inside Tent No higher Than 82f
4. 12in Fan On 24/7
5. DWC Setup, Air stone in Bottom Bucket Air pump On 24/7
6. Lights On 7am Till 9pm 12hr
7. Started Plants On 10-4-14
8. top of the growing media is dry YES
9. I Keep Water Level 1.5in Above Bottom Of Net pot
10 Started Feeding Plant on 10-14-2014 Half Strength

11..I Measures Out Fertilizer In Grams On Digital Scale
(12g,MB 12,g Calcium Nitrate 6g Epsom Salt) = 30g Then Cut That Back To (15g)

12.. I Mix The Solution For 5 Gallons Then Pour Enough To fill 3.5 Gallon Bucket

13. Do I Check Ph Daily (No).. I Only Do That At Water Change
14. Water Seems Okay ,, Donít Smell


Tomato Formula 4-18-38
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2014, 08:41 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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P.S
This Where I Learned Everything I Know This Guy MHPgardener He
Show How To Setup Hydroponic and what he use for fertilizer and if u look u se his result
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXy32Dr4Z4A
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2014, 08:43 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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oTOMMYo
Absolutely, Florescent lighting is great for starting plants and seedlings. As well as even economical for non fruiting plants like different varieties of lettuce, as well as herbs if done right. You still don't want to skimp, you still want to have a good healthy amount of light. But fruiting plants have much higher light requirements/needs because they are also taking on the load of producing the fruit. Non fruiting plants don't have that load. Plants like cucumbers, melons, tomatoes, strawberry's, peppers, etc. are continuously fruiting plants. They don't have separate veg/flowering stages. They do both at the same time, and it's quite common for them to begin fruiting when their no more than 4-6 inches tall, and would want to upgrade their lighting by then.

As an example of using florescent lighting economically for growing lettuce. You could grow up to 18 butter lettuce heads (if spaced right in 3 rows) with two 4 foot long twin bulb T5 lights (212 watts). At 35 cents a day for 18 hours of light, times 30 days, that comes out to $10.50 a month. If you rotated the crop and harvested three heads a week, that would give you 6 weeks (standard for lettuce) to go from seedling to harvest. Essentially costing $0.58 per head of lettuce for electricity. You can even use three twin bulb T8 fixtures. That would equal about the same light output as the two twin T5 fixtures, and at 32 watts a bulb (x6) be close to the same wattage (192) as the 4 T5 bulbs. But the three fixtures may give more even coverage over three rows of plants. Either way would cost basically the same to run ($0.32 a day for 6 T8's- or $0.35 a day for 4 T5's).
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2014, 10:25 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello Bigdaddy216,
I'm sorry I could have sworn you said your humidity level was about 45%. But 65 to 71% isn't bad.

1. I know you have a fan, but I'm not there to tell if the air is circulating well.

2. I looked at the link you provided for the nutrients, and I'm not the manufacture, but to me it looks like you may have mixed them wrong for seedlings. Both instructions for seedlings say 1/2 of the quantity of Calcium Nitrate, and Magnesium Sulfate than that of the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. But you say you are mixing the same amount of the Calcium Nitrate as the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. In other words assuming your math is correct for breaking down the 100 gallon amounts to 5 gallon amounts. It looks to me that you should be using 12g CHEM-GRO 4-18-38, 6,g Calcium Nitrate, and 6g Epsom Salt instead. Cutting back the calcium nitrate by 50%. The example at the bottom shows 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, but that's for larger plants I believe. Near the top of the page for SEEDLING PLANTS it shows using 50% calcium nitrate for seedlings. But you can always e-mail Hydro-Gardens to be sure.

3. You should check the pH every day. It can change for many reasons, and can cause many problems, but you will never know if it changed if you don't check it. later on you can go longer between checking pH once you have the hang of things. But I strongly recommend you check it every day in the beginning. Also I would suggest using pH drops instead of a electronic pH meter. Electronic meters can give false reasons, but pH drops never will. And you don't need to be at an exact pH, you just want to be in the right pH range, and that's very easy to tell with drops.

4. Why did you add extra Epsom salt?
5. I don't think you have had to yet, but if you have needed to add more water back, did you add fresh water or nutrient solution?

P.S.
I like that guys dutch bucket system, but I would probably just use my old standard rock and coco fiber for the growing media. I can get all the rock I want free from my back yard (and is easy to clean and sanitize), and I like the better drainage with it at the bottom, as well as it adds weight I need to keep the wind from blowing things over (he is growing inside out of the wind). Also I would light proof the buckets, either by painting them or wrapping bubble wrap insulation around them. Not sure the size of his reservoir, but in my area for tomato and pepper plants I would want at least 4 gallons water volume per plant (including what's inside each bato bucket), but would prefer 5 gallons per plant (it's hot and dry with very low humidity all year long here in the desert). Here they can easily suck up over two gallons of water per plant each day.
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  #31  
Old 10-22-2014, 10:47 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
Hello Bigdaddy216,
I'm sorry I could have sworn you said your humidity level was about 45%. But 65 to 71% isn't bad.

1. I know you have a fan, but I'm not there to tell if the air is circulating well.

2. I looked at the link you provided for the nutrients, and I'm not the manufacture, but to me it looks like you may have mixed them wrong for seedlings. Both instructions for seedlings say 1/2 of the quantity of Calcium Nitrate, and Magnesium Sulfate than that of the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. But you say you are mixing the same amount of the Calcium Nitrate as the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. In other words assuming your math is correct for breaking down the 100 gallon amounts to 5 gallon amounts. It looks to me that you should be using 12g CHEM-GRO 4-18-38, 6,g Calcium Nitrate, and 6g Epsom Salt instead. Cutting back the calcium nitrate by 50%. The example at the bottom shows 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, but that's for larger plants I believe. Near the top of the page for SEEDLING PLANTS it shows using 50% calcium nitrate for seedlings. But you can always e-mail Hydro-Gardens to be sure.

3. You should check the pH every day. It can change for many reasons, and can cause many problems, but you will never know if it changed if you don't check it. later on you can go longer between checking pH once you have the hang of things. But I strongly recommend you check it every day in the beginning. Also I would suggest using pH drops instead of a electronic pH meter. Electronic meters can give false reasons, but pH drops never will. And you don't need to be at an exact pH, you just want to be in the right pH range, and that's very easy to tell with drops.

4. Why did you add extra Epsom salt?
5. I don't think you have had to yet, but if you have needed to add more water back, did you add fresh water or nutrient solution?

P.S.
I like that guys dutch bucket system, but I would probably just use my old standard rock and coco fiber for the growing media. I can get all the rock I want free from my back yard (and is easy to clean and sanitize), and I like the better drainage with it at the bottom, as well as it adds weight I need to keep the wind from blowing things over (he is growing inside out of the wind). Also I would light proof the buckets, either by painting them or wrapping bubble wrap insulation around them. Not sure the size of his reservoir, but in my area for tomato and pepper plants I would want at least 4 gallons water volume per plant (including what's inside each bato bucket), but would prefer 5 gallons per plant (it's hot and dry with very low humidity all year long here in the desert). Here they can easily suck up over two gallons of water per plant each day.
Ok so no1 I need to check PH level everyday and far az buckets go their all black kinda their not see threw.. but I think I add some reflective radiant barrier round bucket to help maybe keep lil more warm and added protection to block light... now far ass nutrient goes I mixed mines according to mhpgardener and I just cut it in half to 15grams pre 5 gallon bucket then poured that into my 3.5 gallon bucket I thought I was doing right ,,,,now for air circulation I know u cant tell from here lol but I basically have tent half open all time not closed up so air flows better with fan inside and my humidity was 40% to 50% I upped that to round 70% like u told me first time I came here I think it was u that told me humidity was to low im not sure ,,, and yes I did add a pinch salt to water when I looked at it couple days ago.. but all in all my math is bad real bad sorry to say
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:00 PM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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You need to listen to ^^^^ this guy about your PH .....its so important.....if its wrong it will lock out your nutrients from your plant ( your plant wont feed ) and you'll think you've not added enough nutrients..... So you'll add more to the water and nothing happens and its just problem after problem which could have been fixed with the right ph.......PH VERY IMPORTANT!!!

any nutrient deficiency needs addressing from the PH first.

Im actually thinking of going hps now after reading you can get 100/150 watters..........looks like were both gonna learn from these hydro vetrans ...........happy days.
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:09 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oTOMMYo View Post
You need to listen to ^^^^ this guy about your PH .....its so important.....if its wrong it will lock out your nutrients from your plant ( your plant wont feed ) and you'll think you've not added enough nutrients..... So you'll add more to the water and nothing happens and its just problem after problem which could have been fixed with the right ph.......PH VERY IMPORTANT!!!

any nutrient deficiency needs addressing from the PH first.

Im actually thinking of going hps now after reading you can get 100/150 watters..........looks like were both gonna learn from these hydro vetrans ...........happy days.
He asked About How I Do Things & What I Do So I Told him
Now As He Saying I Need To Check PH every Day ..Because I was only checking that when I change water to make sure its between 6.5 and 6.8 so now I just do total nutrient change out in morning
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:11 PM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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Big daddy ....you mentioned putting insulation round your bucket to keep them warm?......... If your water gets too warm you'll be giving bacteria and all the bad stuff a nice warm place to do there thing ( problems ).....thats where the good bacteria comes in ( bennies ) they kill the baddies and colonise your roots with great benifits ......hence ' beneficial bacteria '


.......or you can chill the water so the bacteria cant live ( 16įc )....good or bad.
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:12 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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so way I see it .. my lack of check water PH is starving the plant of it nutrients ...
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:13 PM
Bigdaddy216 Bigdaddy216 is offline
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ok what are bennie?
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  #37  
Old 10-23-2014, 12:02 AM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigdaddy216 View Post
so way I see it .. my lack of check water PH is starving the plant of it nutrients ...
No .....only if your ph is out. That's why he said check everyday until you get used to it ....you may only need to check it weekly once you've got it right but because its your first new setup its best to check daily for a while .

When you start a grow and put fresh water and nutrients in the bucket with correct ph you might find if you check in 2 days that its gone out abit ......

Youll be fine mate .
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  #38  
Old 10-23-2014, 12:09 AM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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ok what are bennie?
Bennies is short for beneficial...... Beneficial bacteria or good bacteria.....do a google search on them im new to the bennies myself iv been using a water chiller.if your bucket water gets too warm it gives the bad bacteria a nice warm environment to live. .....you either add bennies or chill the water to kill the bad bacteria..
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  #39  
Old 10-23-2014, 03:08 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello Bigdaddy216,
Quote:
but I think I add some reflective radiant barrier round bucket to help maybe keep lil more warm and added protection to block light
I was really making a comment about the bato buckets in the video you posted the link to. I wasn't referring to your setup. Your buckets looked black, and I believe you stated your water temp was about 65 to 66. I assume that is Fahrenheit otherwise, WOW. Your water temp is fine. The optimum range is between 68 and 72 Fahrenheit. a few degrees either way is no problem. You just don't want it to get into the 80's or it can lead to problems like heat stress, as well as unwanted bacteria, fungi, and microorganisms (thus pathogens). Pathogens are any living organism (plant or animal) that harms the plant, and like tommy mentioned they thrive best in warm water. They will always be in your system, but if the water temps get high they thrive and begin to outnumber the beneficial microbes that are in your system as well and keep them in check. Then when outnumbering the beneficial microbes there is nothing to keep them from multiplying out of control.

I wouldn't worry about pathogens much right now in your system, your water temps are fine, you said the roots look nice and white, and you said the water looks and smells fine. So I don't really see any signs that you have a problem with pathogens.

Quote:
for air circulation I know u cant tell from here lol but I basically have tent half open all time not closed up so air flows better with fan inside
I asked about air circulation on your plants because if there is standing moisture on the leaves, mold spores can germinate and the mold feeds on the plant. Giving your plant a fungal disease. Often times the first signs of this is spots on the leaves, so I just wanted to be able to eliminate it as a possible problem. It's also why I asked if there was any chance tiny water droplets are splashing on the leaves. That happens a lot with top drip irrigation systems, the water hits the grow rocks and tiny droplets splash on he leaves. Especially for small seedlings because people want it to get as close to the plant as possible because the root system is so small at that point. You can easily get standing water on the the leaves in high humidity (which the plants love) if you don't have good air circulation to the plants foliage.


Before you change your nutrients tomorrow, I would still check the pH before you do. Simply because if you don't you will never know if it was out of range in the first place. Normally for seedlings that small I would easily let it go a month before changing the nutrients because the plants that size are to small to use enough to deplete the nutrients in it. But I would still change them in your situation because you added extra Epsom salt, and from what I can tell it looks like you may have used too much calcium nitrate for this stage. Make sure you double check and triple check your math first if you have any question it may not be right. Otherwise it's just a waste of good nutrients dumping having to dump it out later, because your not sure. Not to mention could be stressful to your plants if it's not right.

I cant ell you how many times I have done a nutrient change and lost track of how much of what I already added (someone asks you a question, the dog barks, etc.etc..). One distraction and you forgot how many teaspoons you added. You cant take it out once you put it in, so check your math first. For dry nutrients I like to put it in a measuring cup before adding it to the water. That way if I loose track I can just pour it back in the container and start over. You can do the same with liquid nutrients as long as you add each part to the water separately, and rinse the cup out between each one you need to add.

P.S. Bigdaddy216
Like I mentioned I wouldn't worry about pathogens right now because from what you've said I don't see any signs their out of control. But if your interested I like to use these:

SubCulture-B (for the Trichoderma fungi)
and
Earth Juice Rooters (for the Mycorrhizae fungi)

oTOMMYo and Bigdaddy216
Also, if either of you are interested in learning more about beneficial microbes send me a private message with an e-mail address, or contact me through my e-mail address on the "contact us" page of my website, and I'll send you the articles I have in text documents on the subject.
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  #40  
Old 10-23-2014, 04:55 AM
oTOMMYo oTOMMYo is offline
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Growing indoors is like a house of cards.... Loads of small bits to get right , but if one is out of place the house falls down .


Your environment is so important , even the small things like air flow or humidity.......if there not right .....non of it is . .

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