Design, setup and production from a Commercial Hydroponic Farm
 

Whew! That title was a mouthful! haha

Another thread was starting to move this direction, so I thought I'd start one here to get that discussion out of the other thread about lighting.

Hey GpsFrontier, I hear you about the money part. I couldn't get started on mine until after retiring. During my working life, there seemed to always be something else the money was needed for. Now, I live by myself and have almost everything I own paid for now, so I can shift some income into my planned for life hydroponic farm.

The *per/acre* amount of produce from a well run, organized hydroponic farm is truly astronomical. In Dr. Howard Resh's book "Hydroponic Food Production", he shows several farms from around the world. The numbers of plants in an acre, and the produce from those plants within one year is stunning in it's numbers.

For one old guy like me, I doubt very much that I could handle the picking, packing, transporting, unloading and selling of more than one acre of produce.

That will turn my life back into a job oriented existence again and that's something I *don't* want to do.

I have a college near me that has an Agricultural department and a dorm full of young people who need part time work. I think I may be able to invite the Head Professor of the Ag dept over to see my setup and discuss some credit based work for the students. I've heard of this being done elsewhere with great success.

The market side of the operation would have to be done by hired help, because I have no interest in doing it myself. Hell, I'm retired and staying that way! hehe

I love the setting up of hydroponic systems and the growing in them. I also love eating the produce.

If I were to only have one to provide me with veggies, I could do that in a pretty small greenhouse.

I really do want to get a commercial op going tho'. It would be a blast planning it all out, building it and making some bucks from it. Even if I broke even for a couple of years, it would just be fun.


Hi halfway! Good to see you here posting again! Forums like this one and mine are for casual topic related conversations. Some folks avoid them because they feel *tense* about posting. That's nuts! Kicking back and just yakking it up like you would in your own living room with a glass of your favorite beverage is what it should be looked at like.

That said, there is a reason that most farmers don't convert their farms to hydroponic growing; costs.

The setup costs for a large scale op are pretty large. More than most farmers could handle on a private farming basis. Most farmers live year to year and have no real *extra* money after their kids future education, upkeep on their current farm property and ops and paying their hired help are output.

Most of the large scale hydroponic farms in the world today are new setups and are either government sponsored or built by people who are part of a coop or already wealthy. It takes *Millions* of dollars to setup a huge hydroponic farm.

I'm going a different direction.

My whole life, I've wanted to create a hydroponic garden that is modular and able to be built by a putting a *kit* together and run by a normal family or even a single family member.

The starvation that exists in the world today could be easily ended by using nothing more than world-wide hydroponic farming. I've punched the numbers and done all the math. I'm a retired database professional, so doing that type of *number crunching* was my bread and butter for more than 30 years.

I've combined my database abilities and my love for hydroponic gardening with my mind-numbing understanding of the numbers and cause of millions of people per/year who starve to death in our world in search of a possible solution to the unneeded waste of human life.

My goal is to build a modular system that will be easy to set up, be made of materials easily transported and purchased or made, and be large enough to provide the basic vegetables needed for survival and health of a family of ten.

I believe I've done all the planning needed and this winter, I'm building the prototype of the first version of this system.

In 2011, I'll prove that my system can be built and used by people with no formal education and in any country in the world.

I'm going to find a family here in my own area that fits that description and once and for all find out if this idea I've built in my mind will work or not.

I think it will. By the end of 2011, I'll know for sure. If it does, I'll find backers who will enable me to kick it off in a much, much larger way.

My goal is to have a system that can be carried by shoulder if necessary, setup, used and maintained by a single person and provide enough vegetables for a family of ten.

I'll use PVC and other plastics first, but intend to also make it so that it can be built from normal items available in most countries like bamboo and such.

2011 is going to be an exciting year for me.

The first question most have for me is "What about the pumps?"

Manually filled tanks using gravity fed systems are a way around the electric part of outdoor hydro. Hard work only if gearing isn't used. Even the poorest families can sometimes come up with some pretty ingenious methods of filling a water tank.

Well there you have it. You all know now what I'll be doing in 2011.

BTW, once I have this family sized system down, it will be able to be expanded by simply combining modules and using larger solution tanks to feed a village, a town or a full sized city.

The commercial application is endless, but my goal is to feed families, not my pocket. If it works out that I make a bunch of money from its commercial application, all the better, I have nothing against making money.

Keep us posted on the progress.

Excellent!

I'll opine a bit more when i get time.

But for now, youtube search "florida hydroponic farm for sale"

I'll provide a link when I get to a larger monitor. The guy has a nice setup in your home state and is looking to sell the whole thing.

Also google search aquaponic plans africa for a group that is doing something similar to your bigger plan.

Again, I'll provide links when I get a chance.

Thanks halfway, I took a look at it. Wow, he could use some instruction on space management in the greenhouse he was standing in. Sparse, real sparse.

I'll bet the price tag that he conveniently didn't mention is through the roof.

Thanks man, but I prefer where I live now. hehe

"Aquaponics"...the new hydroponics.

As far as hydroponic application goes, it's neither an efficient way to grow fish or veggies unless done on a MASSIVE scale.

On a small scale, it's more cost efficient to just grow fish in a pond built for fish and veggies in a screened in greenhouse.

I'd love to read about the folks in Africa who are doing the hydro veggies.

Thanks again for the info!

For anyone that's interested in starting a hydroponic farming business (any business actually) I would suggest contacting your local SBDC (small business development center) office.

Here is a link to a state locater from the SBA website:
Small Business Administration - sbdc_locator_map

The SBA and SBDC are different but closely work together. Where the SBA mostly work to help people get the funding, the SBDC help the business succeed once they have the funding. There services are mostly free of charge. Including putting together the business plan that not only is necessary for getting a loan, but will dramatically increase your chances of the success even if you don't need one. Contact them to set up the free consultation, you will be amazed at what they can do to help. Trust me and make the phone call it will be well worth your time. I simply cant explain it all in a forum post.

I myself have done some number crunching (for the business plan), and found some good reliable information on growing particular crops, as well as projected income from a given number of plants (not acreage). But you do need to do the research (they can't/don't do it for you, it's a free service). But once you do the research they can advise you in the best options, and if the plan is feasible or not. They can even put you in contact with local business owners in the same type of business for free advice.

I have 20-25 years before I retire. So my goal is to make a business out of hydroponics now, and a "reasonable profit' in that time (hobby after that). So I do want to get a profit, but I know return on investment does not always go as planed. But planing is key to success ,that's why I suggest talking to the SBDC for anyone (It cant hurt).

For me I am interested in growing over twenty different crops, but it's important to have quantity (as well as quality) in the product for reliable sales. I'm planing on growing strawberry's as well as peppers at first. But plan to concentrate mostly on the strawberry's (year round) because out of season strawberry's are worth more than in season berry's (especially when grown local, ripe and fresh) for such a perishable product.

Here are some of the sources I used for my feasibility study to grow strawberry's
http://nfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/files/pdf/...erry/98-04.pdf (note: page 5 at the bottom)
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/PI/PI03700.pdf
http://nfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/files/pdf/...erry/98-06.pdf
http://nfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/files/pdf/...erry/98-05.pdf (note: page 3 at the bottom)
http://nfrec.ifas.ufl.edu/files/pdf/...erry/98-05.pdf (note: page 4 at the bottom)

Another good read for strawberry's
Maximum Yield - Indoor Gardening

Also
The book "Hydroponic Strawberry production" by Dr. Lynette Morgan

P.S. I looked up that video, but I was not impressed. They talked more about the house than the hydo farm for one thing. Also there was very little that you can see about the hydro farm. From What I can tell from the video, it's a descent house on a good amount of land (nothing else). He mentioned a RO system, that doesn't mean much to me (no offense) because a unit that can produce 700 gallons per day only costs $300-$400. Compared the price of the land is nothing in comparison. Why did they not talk about the hydroponic systems (that's what they were trying to sell)?

P.S 2. I also agree that anyone should feel free to chime in just like they were talking in there own house to their friends. That's how I speak, that's how freely I expect others to speak. Just like in your living room there are bound to be disagreements, all I expect/ hope for is that it can be a civil disagreement. Bottom line, it takes more than one opinion to make the world go around (so help spin that big fat ball, it's heavy).

P.S 3.
I' m interested in the paneling that you are using for the small greenhouse (even large one), allowing light in, insulation properties ctc.. But mostly cost of materials. Cost, plans, etc..

While looking up Dr. Lynette Morgan's book, I discovered a page with some interesting information on it: Welcome to Dr. Howard Resh, Hydroponic Services

Thanks for the links. Great information.

My initial greenhouse will be 20' x 40'. That's large enough to use the test systems I plan on using and small enough to use as a modular component.

Each add-on module will be another 20' x 40' extension or can be a separate unit. Each will have individual panels of screen that can be removed and covered with clear poly for winter use here in Florida.

I haven't decided on the panel size yet, but it'll be small enough to handle for one person. The panels will be light weight "No seeum" screen, as I've found here in Florida it's best to restrict the sunlight some. Those crops I had in partial sun radically out-performed those in direct sun this year.

All pollination will be done by hand.

I'll not be using any insulation. I don't plan on growing during the cold season here. That will be my annual break in production and allow me repair, cleanup and vacation time. Our temperature related down time here is about a month per/year. Perfect for the tasks I'll need to get done while not growing.

The following years seedlings will all be grown inside my home in a controlled environment, so as to be ready for planting at the first 50F+ nights we have for an entire week. I can use the poly panels until the temps come up to a good range for each day.

I agree on your opinion of the guys sale pitch about the hydro farm. He said so little of merit, that it immediately made me suspicious. Why did he not mention anything about the farm? That was the point of the film clip. I saw some NFT channels and that was it. Like you said, it was then mostly about the house and even that was slim.

Then he cracks on his own realtor. hahahaahaha

I liked his Boston accent. Wow, it was a strong one. "Paaaark the caaaar in the yaaaaard" hahahahaahaha, I'm crackin me up...

I agree the vid left a lot to be desired, but thought I would post it to stimulate additional like item links on youtube and further the commercial aspect of hydro. He did another vid that talked more about the system, but it was very basic. I enjoyed seeing his setup for additional ideas.

There were some good links on the side as I kept opening additional vids. I notice that when people post vids, their naming conventions really need some help as a search is ineffective if your vid name not efficient.

I'm glad this thread was created as it is the next logical step.

Bell peppers are another big inflation vegetable during the winter. I posted another thread on pepper dwarf plant recommendations, but no replies as of yet.


Thanks for being so forthcoming gents...I'm eager to add as I progress.

I apologize....can't seem to find the aquaponic venture in africa. It was an American non-profit venture. The concept was a relatively small, self contained system that was modular in nature and could be expanded to serve small villages. It was a series of tanks and NFT systems with tilapia as the base.

I stumbled on it while searching for commercial applications for hydro and those a little more off the beaten (mega greenhouse) path.

During the same search, NYC window gardening, hydroponics barge, Alberta hydro capacities came up and you know how it goes.....once down the rabbit hole a string of bread crumbs may be necessary.

Like both of you (in one regard or another), I am nearing retirement. Always entertaining self sustainability and potential income.

Ahhhhhh! check this out and associated links. Some good info here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m45vM...ext=1&index=26

Edit: and one more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7wqp...eature=related










.

Great links, halfway. Thanks.

Once I get into Youtube and hydroponic clips, I can blow an entire day watching one after another.

Once again, I have to stress that Dr. Howard Resh's book "Hydroponic Food Production" is an absolute must to anyone who is thinking seriously about growing commercially.

Even private family growers will love that book. It's simply fascinating.

Ya, nice videos. At 2 to 10 minutes for each video I have spent a lot of time watching them myself, basically just loosing track of time. And each time you click on a related video, you get a whole new list of related videos. I really liked the greenhouse in the first one especially. For me I fear the greenhouse to be the most expensive part, and I am not even considering the computer controls at this point. But with the high winds we get around here I need it to be durable, but that doesn't seem to come cheep.

Without getting my paperwork out, the greenhouse I need for the strawberry's will need to at least be something like 20 feet by 27 feet long (or possibly 30x30) and at least 8 feet high, and will be able to accommodate about 700 strawberry plants (in rotation for year round production). But I would like to fit in some melons also, and need another green house for the peppers (for winter time production). I have planed about 40 pepper plants in another spot, using 2 or 3 gallon buckets/pots and a recirculating drip system to supply the nutrient solution. I don't think I have much more space in the backyard to work with without getting yelled at (at least until the money starts coming in anyway). I just have so many crops I want to grow, but only so much space to work with at the moment. So for my first crops I basically want to focus on the crops that should be the most profitable (especially off season produce). I am also looking at cooling measures that I can use to eliminate the need for a full greenhouse, like a misting system to cool air temps for the strawberry during summer, but have a few possible issues with plant disease and inatiquet polination because bees may not be able to fly through the mist.

I like the idea of aquaponics because I like eating fish also, but don't plan on building any aquaponics systems soon. Though I have done some research on that subject also, so here are a few links that I have for anyone interested. I always save pdf files to my computer when I find good ones, that way I can always print it out and read it without the computer, I also like to copy and paste articles into a text document for the same reason.

Aquaponics
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...onicsystem.pdf
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...stemsguide.pdf
http://csip.cornell.edu/Curriculum_R...Aquaponics.pdf
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/e...rel-ponics.pdf
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/BIO-10.pdf
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/SA-2.pdf
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/FST-38.pdf
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/aquaponic.pdf

I have not done any research on dwarf pepper plants and have not grown any dwarf peppers either, so I don't know how the information is different than regular sized plants. But here are a few links on peppers. They are not all specifically about growing pepper plants hydroponically, but most of the information is still related.

Peppers
Missouri Alternatives Center, Alphabetical Links - AgEBB (Vegetable Production Resources)
Chile Peppers for the Home Garden (Chiles for the Home Garden)
http://ucanr.org/freepubs/docs/7217.pdf
Production of Sweet Bell Peppers (Production of Sweet Bell Peppers)
http://coststudies.ucdavis.edu/files/bellpeppers.pdf (BELL PEPPER CULTURE 2000-2001)
June 1999 (Crop Profile for Bell Peppers in California)
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/NewCrops/intro...epperintro.pdf (Bell Peppers)
Greenhouse-Grown Bell Pepper Production (Greenhouse-Grown Bell Pepper Production)
http://agalternatives.aers.psu.edu/P...ll_Peppers.pdf (Pepper Production)
Search Results | Numbered Publications | CAES Publications | UGA (Commercial Pepper Production Handbook, click to view in HTML or pdf in upper right corner)

Wow, I guess that is a lot of links, it may not be everything but should be enough to start with anyway (I haven't even read it all myself).

great links and article gf....i do the same (print and read for later).

Too many variables for me to entertain aquaponics at this point in time, but the subject is fascinating. Especially in system design.

Here's a sweet one with some calculations for the cost per/head of lettuce in a hydro system.

Air Farm Hydroponics - 4 Cents per Head of Lettuce

NorEastFla
To be honest I am weary of any source (website) that's selling products for reliable information. Any study can easily be manipulated to their own needs for results. Considering the source and just how reliable it is, is an important factor to me. So I simply just don't like to rely on product orientated sites, at least without researching/comparing their information first (from a reliable source).

When I search for something, I have two simple tricks I use. Putting quotation marks ("quotation marks") around the keywords narrows the search results dramatically. The next one is when I have gotten the results list, I further narrow the list by going to the search engines "search options," and narrowing the results to ".edu" (educational) websites. They are the most reliable and objective sources for good information, and you don't need to worry about considering the motives of the source information.

P.S. I'm not saying that any of that information is wrong or incorrect, just that I wouldn't just trust it without comparing it to a source that I know I can trust, and I do have some defiant questions/concerns about reliability from that source. That being said, as long as I'm looking up a reliable source to compare it to anyway, I usually just start there in the first place. No offense, that's just my opinion (I still appreciate the link and info) the more the merrier. But thought I would pass along my searching tricks for anyone that it may help.

P.S. 2 Just in case anyone was wondering what I meant by a RO system that can deliver 700 gallons per day, here is a link to what I'm talking about:

GE Merlin Tankless Reverse Osmosis (they are not the only ones that sell it but prices vary)

I understand verification of any information. I don't discount anything from commercial sites, I just verify it. I also verify that which I find at .edu sites also. You wouldn't believe how much BS I've found at .edu sites as well.

The academic world is full of argument among themselves. Full blown battles exist between factions of academia about almost every issue that exists.

I've found statements made by Dr. Resh that I disagree with and can support argument on. While he is the one I consider as the "Father of Modern Hydroponics", he's not infallible and does make statements that are not state of the art or that I've proven wrong with my own experiments.

Cross verification of data is the only way to confirm the validity of that data.

As of 1990, I had read every book written about hydroponics that is listed in the "Books In Print" volumes that are in every library in the nation. Those who don't have hard copies of those volumes have online issues to source.

I started at the first book listed in the volumes and requested each through the Intra-Library Loan Service and over a period of a year, read every single one that was listed.

That helped me immensely with filtering out BS in future articles and publications.

I've also been studying hydroponics since 10 years prior to that research, and have done extensive experimenting on my own.

I was once considered for the Directors position at the Epcot Hydroponic Exhibit in Orlando, Florida, but a person with a Doctorate beat me out. It turned out to be a faulty decision on their part as I discovered after seeing the results of his work. Frankly, I could have done it better, but didn't have the Doctorate to back up my knowledge and the Board at Epcot chose him because he did have one. Oh well...

I really wish I'd gotten that job! I wanted it really, really badly, and it bummed me out very much when I lost the opportunity.

The Epcot Center will just have to be satisfied with his 1950's hydroponics displays. (Bap, Bip, Bop....take that!)

I'm telling you this to give you an idea of what my own background in hydroponics is. I seldom say anything in the way of suggestions unless I've already proven the data to myself first.

You're perfectly correct when you say that *all* data should be cross checked by multiple sources. Even then, you can still find data that has been accepted as accurate and is not.

Like I told a ghost believer once, I'll believe that their are ghosts when one sits down and talks with me when I haven't been drinking or smoking anything. Until then, I consider them a result of over-active imaginations.

I consider Dr. Resh as the supreme authority in hydroponic farming. He's forgotten more than I'll probably ever learn, so-to-speak. However, I've found data of his that I've tried and found to be NOT the best way to do things through proving it via experimentation.

Cross check and verify. Two very wise methods to use prior to proving via experimentation.

Only after proving a method in trials can it be accepted as fact, unless someone else you trust has already done so.

Well said and valid for any and EVERY topic of study.

Research, compare, validate, decide.

Great thread. :cool:

NorEastFla
I do agree in both that just because it's on a commercial site does not mean it's inaccurate, nor just because it's on a .edu site would mean that it was always completely accurate either. Just that I prefer to start with .edu sites because it's much less likely to be inaccurate, and I don't need to worry if they are modifying there results to favor there products and/or services. But yes there is always disagreements and favoritism thought the scientific community's. And even valid study's being done by educational institutions are often one sided in there results, especially when they are trying to secure funding to continue projects. That's really just the human element of human nature after all.

I wish that I have done all the reading on the subject of hydroponics that you have. I have known about hydroponics for over 20 years, but have only really been getting into it for the past 2 years or so. Also I have dyslexia and that causes me problems with reading, both in spelling issues and misreading words, but also it makes it hard to concentrate on what it is that I am trying to read. That's one of the reasons I like printing out pdf files, and articles I put in text documents, it makes it easier for me to read when trying to concentrate on it. I don't think that I have ever read a book all the way through in my life. I don't even try to read fiction books because reading is just to much work unless I'm trying to learn something. But I do really want to learn all about hydroponics that I can. That by default means learning all about the plants as well, including plant biology, diseases, pests and beneficial microbes. But all I can do is take it one day at a time.

I have the book you mention "hydroponic food production" on my want to get list, along with the "Hydroponic Strawberry production" book that I've been wanting (always low on cash). I have herd the name "Dr. Resh" and knew he was an authority in hydroponics, but didn't know much about him. While looking up his book I came across his website. www.howardresh.com and bookmarked it. I may try to see if they have it at the library. I know that nether the county or collage library's have the "Hydroponic Strawberry production" book, and cant even get it from another library. They did a nation wide search and found only one copy in New York somewhere, and being that far couldn't send it to my library.

Hey GpsFrontier, you may want to check with your local county library about the InterLibrary Loan Service. My country library was getting most of the books I requested from Berkley California. That's about as far from me as you can get and not hit the ocean.

All you need is the ISBN number. You can get that online at any of the large book store sites.

OMG, I don't know what I would have done if I had problems reading. In my lifetime, I would say I've read at least several thousand books. I read at least one book a week, sometimes two.

I read both online and books now, and I guess I read about 6 hours a day. If I couldn't read, it would make me crazy.

Have you thought of learning to read braille? That would at least take the dyslexic problem out of the equation. Would it help you if you had one of those readers that make the print very, very large? Maybe with less print in your field of view, it wouldn't be as hard to read. I have no idea. I'm guessing.

NorEastFla
I am not positive if they called it "InterLibrary Loan Service" but I think it was. Basically I asked at the desk if they had the book, they didn't. But she said if I filled in a form they could get from another library in there system if they had it (and it can take up to 2 weeks just to locate it). So I then went over to the collage library and asked them. Of coarse they didn't have a copy either, but I talked to the lady in charge of getting books from other library's, I gave here the information on the book (title and author). I found out the county library already tried getting it from the collage library, so I'm guessing they use the same system for getting books from other library's.

Then I got a call about 2 weeks later saying that they could only find one copy, and it was across the country. I don't remember the exact conversation but if I remember correctly the reasoning was because in order to insure its return there was a deposit required, and/or it would likely cost more to ship than the book was worth. The deposit witch If I remember correctly is the replacement cost of the book (in case I didn't to return it). If I could afford that I could buy the book, witch is what I want to do anyway so I would have time to read it (considering my reading problems). Also I asked if I would be able to renew it. I'm not sure if that caused them to wonder if I would even return it, or if that's a common problem. But I think that was there concern. At that point I just gave up and just figured I would need to wait until I could scrounge up the $60 to buy it.

I never knew all through school that I had dyslexia, never even knew what it was. Teachers never said anything, and my mom was a only parent. She needed to spend her time trying to keep the roof over our head, and I was the typical rebellious teenager, so that didn't leave the door open much for communication (she always felt I just wasn't trying). I just squeaked by in school getting mostly C's and D's and commonly F's in English. I never went to collage, just started working at the local VONS grocery store in the meat department full time after school.

I don't know but I don't think learning braille would help. First it seems like it would be like learning a new language, and one is hard enough. Second even if it took away the visual aspects of reading the letters, I don't think it would help me to be able to concentrate. You probably have noticed that I write in fairly even length paragraphs, that makes it easier for me to read/reread. That's just about as much as I can read at one time before I need to take a break. It's kind of hard to explain, but when I'm trying to read something, it's like another part of my brain is thinking about something else. Then interrupts the part that is trying to read. Kind of like when someone try's to talk to you while you are trying to listen to a news story. Only you can tell them to be quiet, I cant keep my brain from interrupting and distracting me.

Then combined with seeing letters that aren't there, and having to reread things two and three times because of it. It just makes it very difficulty and time consuming for me. Then top that off, the more complicated or technical the material I'm trying to read is, the harder it is co concentrate. I know there are ways to learn to deal with dyslexia, and that really takes knowing the type and severity of it. The only real way I can see to learn to deal with it, is going back to school. Taking reading and English classes designed for people with dyslexia. I'm not really looking forward to it (I have never had much luck in school.), but hope to take those classes one day. I really want to take classes on any thing related to plants and hydroponics though. But right now I'm just trying to stay above water money wise.

I can't tell by your answer if it was the college library that told you it required a deposit or if it was your local county library.

I've requested literally dozens of books from the county library and never has the subject of a deposit came up.

They simply order it from where they find it and it comes in and I read it.

I usually have three weeks to read it before the due date.

Which library told you they would have to have a deposit?

NorEastFla
I had went back to the county library about a week after I filed the request, they said they had not found a copy as of yet (they had my phone#, address and e-mail), and they would defiantly contact me either way. I don't remember who it was that told me that the county library tried to get it from the collage library. But I think I was told that when I inquired about the progress when I went back to the county library. I was only contacted once, and it was a while ago (about 4 months I think), so I cant tell you for sure, But I believe it was the lady from the collage library that finally called me back. Both library's knew that I filed the same request from both of them because of my conversations with them. I assumed that the reason the other library (whichever it was) did not contact me was because they both knew about my request, and they both use the same inter-library system to get them (if so then a second call would be redundant).

The book is 118 pages but I doubt I would be able to get through more than a few pages a day (working on only that book every day), even in a couple of hours each day. But of course there are a lot of variables like how technical the info is, how much text is on each page, if it requires me to look up the meaning of words to understand. Bottom line, if I can check it out for free it doesn't matter (free is free). But I would like to be able to not just get through it, I want to understand it. I know that I simply wont be able to do that in a few weeks.

P.S.
On the upside, I'm great with anything that's hands on. Taking things apart and putting them back together again I enjoy a lot, and just don't have a problem with. So I'm quite mechanically inclined. Both in machinery, automotive, as well as general construction, pluming, lighting etc.. Even in basic electric wiring (110 volts, no high voltage). As long as I did not need to read it from a book, I got A's in shop classes. I even had a written recommendation from the auto shop teacher to go to trade school (AAI in AZ, but I never got my high school diploma). I eventually got work doing brakes, alignments and front end work for sears automotive center, as well as tires, battery's and charging systems (worked there about 5 years).

I have done a lot of construction on my moms houses also, as well as replacing and adding electrical and lighting, tile, drywall, rebuilding cabinets, as well as pluming both inside and out etc. (nothing underground except sprinkler systems). I would have turned the attic into a second story including balcony's on both sides, even with a bathroom and skylights for natural light (because there were no walls for windows). But she just didn't have the money despite the projected property value increase on that condo. Bottom line, I don't feel sorry for myself, it is, what it is. I know I have strengths and weaknesses just like anyone else. I focus on my strengths, and deal with my weaknesses best I can
.

Hey GpsFrontier, you sound like a real go-getter! Ha! I think maybe you're my long-lost twin.

I love learning. It really doesn't make any difference what it is, as long as it's something I can possibly use later.

I just had a landscaping company come in and clear my entire acre to perfection. Over the years, areas of it were getting to a point that I couldn't keep up with it and it had to be brought back to ground zero again.

The Systems test area I'm going to build will be in "Area #1", and will also be my first production area. It'll be a 20' x 40' area.

My second area is much larger than #1 and Area #3 is twice it's size.

Combined, they are about a half acre in area. Once I have them up and running, I'll be able to see where I want to go from there.

My largest problem are the trees. When I get storms, limbs come down. That will wreck havoc on hydroponic setups below.

The sunshine on those three areas is about 70-80% full sun. Plants have always grown at a fantastic pace in all three areas.

Each area will have a plowed, cleared, root free 12" of soil covered with black plastic and screening for the "floor" and be screened in with a clear, Plexiglas roof over the plants. The soil will be prepped to ward off or kill critters and bugs.

The money for the first area will come from my pocket. Areas #2 and #3 will come from the profits of Area #1 after the produce is sold at the local farmers market.

By 2012, I plan on having all three areas pushing out veggies on a pretty massive scale.

Everyone on this site will be able to watch the construction, setup and use of all three areas. It should be a lot of fun and pretty interesting.

Outstanding!!

I wish you the best of success and await all progress updates.

:)

NorEastFla
Ya, I have always been curious about how things work. Even as far back as 7'th grade I would go dumpster diving at the apartments next door (they had about 2000 apartments). Always looking for anything interesting I could take apart to see how it worked, also looking for things I could use the working parts for something else. I found a lot of playboys, hehe. They did some remolding from time to time, and one time they through out hundreds of phones. That seems trivial now, but that type of thing was a gold mind to me then. I also scavenged local construction sites, looking for any discarded materials that I thought I might be able to use. Always found good stuff but getting it home was another story.

Once I found two bench vices, not big ones (about 10 pounds each), but I positioned them on my bench about 1 foot apart and lined them up so they would clamp down in tandem. Both of them together held up an extraordinary amount of weight, even when hitting on end of a half shaft that was clamped down with a sledge hammer. The vices wouldn't budge but the table shook. They lasted all the way until we moved out of that house and I couldn't take the table with me. I could have gotten some really good stuff (tools extension cords generators etc.) one time when the school was having asbestos removed. They had to leave doors open for ventilation and we walked all through it (even the asbestos shower station, and school auditorium stage) in the middle of the night. But that would have been steeling, and just not my style. We were just happy to drink beer and hang out there without getting busted.

Anyhow, it looks like you have some good space to work with. And I look forward to seeing the progress (take lots of pictures). I'm not sure how large the limbs are that come down, or how often it happens. But I'm wondering if netting stretched between tree trunks would be useful. For large heavy branches that would not be very useful, but medium to small branches might work. I am also thinking that building a lean-to type structure above the green house, will be able to deflect even heavy branches. Not necessarily built solid but with close enough ribs so the branches would be deflected instead of falling through. Naturally a lean-to type structure could block light. (even with a not solid roof). But it could be built in a way that it would be easily and quickly moved, and only put in place during storms. Same goes for any structure that would be able to block the falling branches from hitting the greenhouses.

Of course anything like that built to be effective would not be cheep, but considering what the cost would be to replace what is underneath, not to mention the time that was invested in the systems and plants. It may be good insurance. Also simply talking to a local tree timing company, and having them inspect the branches for things like cracks or pest damage. Then having them cut down the limbs before they fall in the first place may be a better option. I'm not familiar with your weather, but those are just a few things I can think off the top of my head. I do know that Florida gets hurricanes but well, that's another thing all together.

Thanks for all of your encouragement, folks.

I've wanted to build a hydroponic farm for so many years that it seems like a life time. It's going to be a blast.

GpsFrontier, there will be too much area to cover with a lean-to structure, but the netting is a good idea. Most of my trees are 150+ feet tall and well branched. A tree company would charge me and arm-and-a-leg to trim them up. I try to keep them trimmed as much as I can with the string-and-rope trick, but I can't get to the very high ones. I'll have to let nature take it's course with the bad storms.

Thank goodness the Plexiglas panels are cheap. I'm going to build the framing for the panels with some limb-stopping strength. Hopefully, only the very largest limbs will make it to the equipment below.

I plan on buying an open piece of ground after a few years and moving my farming to it. All it takes is money...hehe

NorEastFla
Do you have a link to the Plexiglas panels you are going to use? I have seen some at Home Depot but don't remember them as being cheep considering how many I would need for what I have planed.

Because of the annual damage I'll likely receive each storm season, I've planned on using a system of 2'x3' grid of openings on the roofs that will allow me to cut each of these panels into 3 panes and install into the roof with a quick fasten system for installation like some snap clips to hold the trim.

It doesn't matter if isn't perfectly air tight or even absolutely water tight. All the lumber will be pressure treated and I'll be able to pop panels in and out in minutes if a branch happens to take one out all together or even partially.

I know "Plexiglas" is a brand name, but I kinda use it as a catch-all word meaning "Clear Plastic Type Panel".

Plexiglas or Hurricane Panels are 2 to 3 times that cost.

I plan on using gutters on the roofs to collect the rain water for use in the daily reservoir refills. I'll have it flow to storage barrels which will be plumbed in turn into the reservoirs and mixing tanks.

Another trick I learned from Dr. Resh. That system will take part of the load off from the water well and also extend the life of the pumps on the wells and less electric use.

I'll use a gravity filtering system for the rain water to take out any contaminants it collects on it's fall to earth.

It's a win-win to use rain gutter collection on a hydroponic farm.

Just did the math for the roof. I'll need 20, 2'x12' panels for each side of the 10' peaked roof with a 20' x 40' base 5' tall. It would cost me about $7 per/panel with 60 panels per/side.

That's $840 for the initial installation. Just for the panels.

The rest will be screened in. I may get by with about $2,000 for the building.

NorEastFla
Thanks for the link. That is about what I was looking at at Home Depot. I don't know exactly now, but I remember them being between $10 and $15 ea. I haven't tried to figure out exactly how many I would need, but I'm sure it will be well over 50. Even that would run over $650, not to mention the frame and connecting them to it.

I need to take the panels down during the summer because it would get too hot inside. Sitting in direct sunlight all day, in temperatures of over 120 degrees would require a lot of electricity to cool down. So I just cant justify spending between 1 and 2 grand to build a greenhouse that will only be effective for me during winter. That's more than the hydroponic systems will cost, even if I cant find a cheaper alternative to the square tubing I need for the setup I have planed.

I can cover the greenhouse frame for about $300 with shade cloth. That will help protect from direct sunlight during summer. But it does allow air flow. Evaporative coolers are common in greenhouse operations, but still need fresh air to work. So the air flow through the shade cloth would be a benefit to using evaporative coolers (swamp coolers). The evaporative coolers are easy to build also. I think I mentioned that I'm also going to look into using a cooling misting system as well (like patio misting systems). It would need to be a high pressure system to get the most efficiency in cooling and less water usage from it. But I think if I plan it out well it would be effective.

During winter, I'm planing to put up rolled plastic sheeting over the framing structure. But I'm worried about durability, winds can cause rips and tears. It wont need to cover it all the way. Just enough to keep it warmer inside. I plan to use some propane heaters inside as well. Although I will be building the burners myself. That's because I want to maximize it's efficacy, and make sure it can handle the winds without going out. As well as safety issues like staying in place. But propane should burn clean and add co2 to the plants growing environment.

Although for the peppers, I may still use the plexiglas pannels during winter because that green house will be smaller and needs to be warmer. So I will want it more air tight. I need to get some figures together to be able to make that decision. I cant build anything permanent in the backyard or my mom wont let me use the space. So I need to do it in a way I can disassemble, and move it if necessary.

P.S. Just thought I would mention that I am planing to use blue bottle fly's for pollination during winter. They can handle cold weather much better than bees. Also I'm allergic to bee stings, so I'm not really wanting to tempt fate. They will fly away, where bees will return to the flowers. But in a mostly enclosed space, they cant fly away easily. Also I plan to learn how to breed them (to keep cost down). But during summer I will probably plant some flowers to draw bees in (the shade cloth will have openings then).

Using the flies looks like a good method. In cup quantities, have you researched how many cups of pupae would be needed per/area of sq ft?

I saw no mention of what quantity to use on their page.

Wow, 120 degrees! It hovers around 90-95 here for the hottest part of our summer, but our humidity is maxed out at 80%+ most of the summers, so using misters or swamp coolers wouldn't be feasible here.

I'll use the paneled roof with the 5' base being screened in and add fans if necessary to move the air a bit.

I plan on selling all of my produce at $1 per/pound regardless of type. That will be my largest advertising factor and selling feature. You bag it, I weigh it and the price is $1 per/pound for everything, all growing season.

Like I was saying before, our winter is only about a month long here, so I'll be able to use artificial lighting to supplement natural daylight hours, and grow for most of the year.

My whole purpose for the paneled roof is to keep rain from diluting the reservoir solutions and protecting the equipment and crops from falling limbs.

The entire area here has to be enclosed with screen. The Florida insects are unbelievable. They can take a crop down to stems in a couple days if massive insecticide isn't used or having greenhouse crops protected by screening.

We have one grasshopper here that gets up to 5 inches long and looks like a dinosaur. I've seen only one of these grasshoppers take an entire tomato plant to stems.

Roofed and screened is the only option here in Florida. That or even a complete solid greenhouse with ventilation.

I live in the middle of a swamp of old growth trees and natural foliage. The Oxygen/CO2 exchange is so huge that the plants will thrive using natural ventilation with the screening.

I'll just have to bite the bullet on the costs of setup. The profits per/sq ft will be great, even at my reduced pricing, and the annual repair/maintenance costs will be minimal. Getting it up and running this spring will be my utmost priority.

Watch for lots of pics here in my upcoming project thread.

For an idea of possible production levels of produce in a hydroponic greenhouse, take a look at this page:

Hydroponic Greenhouse Construction & Consulting: 10,000 Pound per Month Greenhouse

In my 800 square foot greenhouse, I should be able to produce up to 4,500pounds of produce per/month and I'll also have some vertical potato and onion grow bins on the ends.

The vertical grow bins are basically a 4 foot square of inter-spaced 1"x4" boards with hinges holding them together. You plant the seed potato and onions between the slats and the thing looks like a giant bush while they grow. When ready to harvest, you simply drop the sides down and kick it loose. You have 80 square feet of growing area in a 16 sq ft footprint.

I may build a separate greenhouse for them. It can be all screen just to keep the bugs off the plants. The box itself is filled with straw and dirt and fed via drip from all five growing sides. This method puts out an incredible amount of potatoes and onions in little area.

My center-line produce in the area with the 10' peak, I'll have tomatoes and trellis produce like eggplant and squash. I have a couple smaller varieties I tried out this year and had great success with.

In the area along the sides with only 5' of height, I'll plant my leafy greens.

I have a method of NFT that utilizes a "swinging" pipe that can be moved a couple feet over while harvesting, so that will aid me in picking produce each day.

The farmers market is only open on Saturday and Sunday, so I'll pack the weeks produce in bins until the weekend.

I plan on using the same bins for harvesting, storing and selling the produce, so that will take some of the "hands-on" work out of the equation.

Ya, it gets hot here in the mojave desert. Shoot we had a couple of days last week that almost reached 90 (and that was Halloween). Though the one good thing is we don't have much humidity at all. The digital thermometer lowest level is 20, the only time any humidity ever registers is when it rains. Sounds like you have some interesting setup designs planed, I look forward to the pictures. That looks like a interesting link, I don't have tome to check it out now but I bookmarked it.

I have tried, but it seems to be one of those trial and error things. I have even called them asking that question, but they basically say that's up to me. Mainly because of all the variables like the type of crop, whether your using them in open air or in a screened in location etc.. I haven't found much research on them, I had more links but either lost them or just forget where I filed them. But here's one that I do still have,

Proving Their Prowess—Insects Help Preserve Germplasm Collection

Also I have only found one other distributor for them (so far)
Mantis Place - Where Mantis and Bug Supplies Hang Out! - Feeder Insects

I like the way this greenhouse is constructed. With the way the polls are secured to the ground they don't need to be permanent, as long as they are not cemented in. And it's my understanding that as long as the polyethylene film is tight, it should be fairly durable (though I'm not totally sure), I have also found out that they make a polyethylene film tape to patch tears (just in case). I wont be needing the thermostat controls to raise and lower the side panels, I can do that manually. Even though I would use the metal pipe for securing it to the ground, I would probably use PVC for the ribs (bows) instead (but would look into the cost difference). The PVC just wouldn't have nice rounded look, but still be functional with angled corners.

Horticultural Engineering - Rutgers University
(click on "2003-2007 High Tunnel Project" then at the bottom of the page that comes, up click on "Pictures of High Tunnel Construction and Preparation")

P.S. Of coarse I would also have hydro systems inside, instead sowing the ground for soil plants.

I do too, GpsFrontier. I have one started in the southeast end of my front yard. I used 3/4" PVC for the bows and a wood 2"x4" frame for the base that the marine ply will be attached to for the flooring.

I really like the way they did the ends. I'm going to do something very similar to mine. I learned a trick for bending lumber from a boat builder I knew once. It takes awhile to accomplish, but makes perfect bends in any length of lumber. That way no doublers, (scabbing), are needed and the structural integrity is retained.

That part of my yard isn't prone to falling limbs, so I can get away with the polyethylene roof cover.

I'll take pics of the greenhouse as it's finished. I used 10 foot, 1/2" re-bar inside the 3/4" PVC to give it structural strength. If using this type of framing works, I may use it for my other greenhouses also. It's *WAY* less expensive than using the fiberglass panels and can be replaced for less cost also.

The pics attached to this post are of that greenhouse. It sat idle this year while I was distracted on other projects, but I'll finish it this winter. Its leaning badly right now because it has no ends built yet and I haven't built the side and corner supports. They will be 6 foot, steel fence posts hammered into the ground on the 4 corners and the middle of both sides to a 24" depth. The 4 feet remaining will be attached to the PVC.

I intend to add galvanized steel pipes that are hammered into the ground for supports on each side of each bow. Right now, they're supported by stainless steel clamps at the bases and by the PVC/Re-Bar that goes down the middle of the bows and top from end to end. The top Re-Bar is two ten foot pieces and the Re-Bar in the bows come up to the top/middle from each side and butt against the top piece.

I built this and let it set in full exposure to the elements to test it's strength and durability. After two years of sitting like this, it's still very strong and will be the model for some others I'll have.

I was a little disappointed to find that these guys used dirt to grow in. What a let-down! I was expecting hydroponics.

A note on the plastic mulch they used; The red mulch has already been proven to result in faster, larger and better growth than the blue or black. It was proven by the manufacturer of the red mulch in many, many tests. I'm not sure why they are retesting a proven method...perhaps because the only testing I know of was done by the people who make and sell it.

Here's a pretty cool site for a PVC green house:

http://www.pvcplans.com/ArchGrnHouse.pdf


And another:

http://www.snapclamp.com/greenhouse.htm

NorEastFla
Thanks for the links to the greenhouse plans, I bookmarked them and will print them out later when I move the laptop to the den with the printer. The pictures of the one that you are working on has given me an idea for a rounded top on mine. I plan to use 1 1/2 inch to 2 inch PVC tubing, and that wont bend as easily, but for the top I may steep down to the 3/4 inch and just add more of them. Or just add extra lateral support for them, ether way it wont block much light. I just need to find the right connectors to connect the two largely different sized tubing's, but I have no doubt that can be worked out one way or another.

I will probably leave out the re-bar though, I don't want it to be top heavy. And for the cost I could double the ribs and add lots of lateral support. If I remember correctly a 10 foot piece of re-bar goes for about $8, and the 3/4 inch PVC (10 foot) goes for less than $1.50, and a 10 pack of connectors depending on size (3/4 or 1/2) and type goes for $2 to $3. Also when I say PVC in the case of building a greenhouse, I am really referring to "PVC electrical conduit." Only because I have found that the UV from the strong sunlight we get here in the desert will discolor and make regular PVC more brittle. The electrical conduit is only a couple of penny's more for the straight pieces of tubing, and should be more UV friendly. Although the connectors are more expensive for some reason (if I remember correctly). So I will use the regular PVC connectors instead (they fit both). I may even paint them the same color as the electrical conduit for aesthetics, it may even block UV to the plastic.

Ya, me too! But oh well, we'll show them. Even so I still really like the way they constructed the greenhouse itself. The way the sides roll up and, ends open for ventilation, as well as the height of it. But because of space considerations, I may decide to just have all 4 sides roll up. They can still be screened to keep large pests out, pollinating fly's in and still allow ventilation when needed. I could even have the screening roll up and down to make any maintenance on the hydro systems easy, as well as allow bees to pollinate during summer. And taking some ideas from the the two greenhouse designs you posted, building a screen door would make it easy to get in and out while still screened in. The door and framing could be built in a way that it's easily removable for any maintenance issues also.

Modular progress...
 

Hello NorEastFla!

I just saw this thread and am curious how you are progressing. I love the idea. I have been entertaining ideas similar to yours for a few years now and couldn't believe when I read that somebody else is already 'on the job'.

A few years ago I read about a wealthy investor(I think I read it in National Geographic) that wanted to give out loans, possibly grants, to innovative entrepreneurs that were looking to involve world wide philanthropy in their business model.

I have 16 years of Hydroponic experience and that was where my mind went to after reading about the investor. I have just moved to New York City to join my brother in work. We are starting a business that offers delivery, installation & maintenance of hydroponic systems.

We aim to appeal to architects & landlords, families, schools, senior centers,
and hotels. We are getting into this because we don't see anyone else doing it yet. My brother has the money making mind.

I have been a teacher and Nutrition Director/chef at two different schools out in Colorado over the years, and unlike my brother, I am mostly interested in the educational aspects/community building that could come from getting more Urban Gardening in inner cities.

Now I have recently made a new friend who just moved up to NY from Florida. She mentioned my idea of farm lockers(almost like a community garden, but with individual units under 1 roof) to an investor friend of hers, and now we are working up feasibility studies.

Apparently there are many strip malls/grocery stores going vacant in their part of Florida, and thought it would great use of the spaces available.

Thanks for your time, I just felt like making contact with you to cheer your efforts on!