Tomato Plants are not producing....
 

Hello all, the wife and i decided we'd give growing our tomato plants indoors this year and up till now i thought things were going great.

Our problem is they don't seem to be producing, just growing. And the PH has been coming up instead of going down.

The plant's are Burpee Beefsteak Organic Tomato plants. We have 12 plant's 24-36+inches tall. In a top drip recirculating system. They are at least 90+day's old. So i think they are mature enough. Since it was our first time we just went with the FLora Series and used a typical feeding regiment. For this last batch of nutrients i didn't add the FloraGrow, but did add the Koolbloom, cause i figured i was getting to much Nitrogen. I have also noticed that the leave's seem to be undercurling a little not to bad and were a tad dark on there green color. Another reason i dropped the Flora Grow. Temp's run around 60's at night and mid 70's at day. I feed them an hour on and an hour off. And i just swiched lighting back to 17hrs it had been 12hrs.



Any help would be very very appreciated.

I am only responding because I LOVE your user name!!! LOL

OK, and I grow tomatoes using a top drip system with great results, but...outdoors. I also use a G.H. Flora product...FloraMato for flowering not for vegetative. FloraGrow is Veg only right?

What Flora series are (or where) you using? And/or what are your Veg. nutrients, what are your flower nutrients?

I am not familiar with KoolBloom, is that your flowering nutrient?

What P.H. are you running? My P.h. I try and keep 5.8-6.5, I am constantly pushing it down...daily almost.

What substrate are you using? An hour on, hour off seams a bit much unless you are running a Less-absorbent media. Are you running Hydroton (sp?) The clay pellet thingies?

Personally I run Perlite, 3 minutes on every hour, during daylight hours only, the commercial growers run on the half hour. (My buckets also contain a small res. on the bottom to whick up to the roots ((pretty sure that keeps them alive at night ;-)))

What are we looking at with your lighting? Watts? Type? Spectrum? Age of bulbs? Oh, and light height. Do your plants look leggy at all?

Any flowers yet? You should have flowers by now. I am running outdoors pure vegetative nutrients (supercharged) with about 14 hours of light, and not only flowering but producing fruit as well. I need to switch to my flowering nutrient but I am waiting for my pepper plants to catch up.

Fill in some of those blanks, and some of us might get a better idea of what might be going on. Pictures?

Todd

I'm using FloraMicro,FlorGro,FLoraBloom. I added the Liquid KoolBloom, say's it's supposed to help with giving you more blooms.

PH wise i keep it under 6.5, usually once it get's above that i tend to lower it down to about 6.2 and let it work it's way back up.

Substrate wise i'm using Sure To Grow, since it was new on the market and i was new at this. So far i love the product, it's nuetral and i figured the less i have to worry about anything adding to my water the better off i was.

Light wise is where i think i'm having problem's, mainly cause i don't fully understand it and partly cause i'm trying to stay on the cheaper end.

The bulbs i'm using are Sylvania Daylight 6500K, 32w bulbs,2700 Lumens and roughly 2months old not sure about the spectrum how do i find that out? They are Fluorescent bulbs. I keep them roughly 6-12"s from the tops of the plant's.

I have absolutely no flower's. I think they started off a bit leggy and now the main vines are starting to get thick. I dont think when i first started i was watering them enough or with enough nute's, i just started the 1hr on/1hr off program about 3weeks ago. Which only seem to push them to grow.

I have 3 plants that are only about 24"s tall the rest are ever bit of 3'.

I noticed you said you are having to push your PH down, i was under the understanding that when a plant is in it's flowering stage it's supposed to lower the PH, not raise it. Or is that something else i'm confused on? I will try to get picture's ASAP

Hello T'Mater,
Deciding to stop using the "flora-Gro" was a mistake. Unlike in soil where mixing different brands, and/or lines of nutrients and additives is common. Growing hydroponically dosen't have the same buffer of nutrients in the soil to make up for compensations, thus is not nearly s forgiving. Use 10mL (2 Tsp) per gallon of all three (Gro, Bloom, and Micro) for your nutrient solution. Give your plants about 2 weeks to to show recovery. Keep the ratios basically even, but you can add a few mL more per gallon of flora bloom, and/or drop a few mL per gallon of gro if desired. But you need all 3 parts of the nutrient solution to work properly. Cutting any part out of the mix will result in deficiency.

Your lighting may be an issue too, but tomato's have been known to be successfully grown using florescence's with 'enough light," (keywords "enough light"). I need to look up the info again but I believe 6500K is on the high end of the blue spectrum (6700k the very top, and better for foliage), and the lower the "K" number, the more on the red end of the spectrum (better for flowering plants). But with enough light your plants should flower with either spectrum of florescent lights.


P.S.
60 on/off may also be an issue. The Sure To Grow growing medium holds moisture easily (just like rockwool), and may be limiting oxygen to the roots.
You can get the same amount of water time by using a 30 on/off cycle, or even better 15 on/off cycle time. But may only need 15 on, and 30 off cycles. Do you have any pictures of your setup? You may also be able to get more oxygen to the roots with better drainage (regardless of cycle times).

I am a rank amateur, but I will add this if it helps.

I decided I could NOT grow tomtatoes or peppers indoors because of lighting constraints. Since I did not want to use HPS or MH, I felt I could not get even red spectrum flouros to penetrate deep enough to fully bloom the flowers and set fruit.

Maybe with High Output T5's, but not with my T8s.

Good luck with your grow...sounds like the plants are thriving minus the blooms.

...and I'm a higher ranking Amateur! (or is it lower ranking!)

Either way halfway probably knows a bit more about it than I do, but I do know about growing vegetative only plants with High Output T5 lights underwater ;-) Figure that one out...

You need to figure out how many watts total you are running above your plants, add all the lightbulbs up multiply by 32 and you will get your total wattage for the system, now guesstimate how much wattage each plant is getting. T8's don't put out that many lumens (I think that's the term), or rather the amount of light they can direct at an object. We spend boatloads of money on bulbs and the housings which direct the light to maximize plant growth. A couple hardware store shop lights just waste over 50% of the light they create.

Trust me I understand the not wanting to invest in an expensive lighting system. Consider how much you have invested so far, for non-fruit producing plants. All is not lost though...you can supplement the light you have using additional spectrum. Now I am not sold on the LED panels quite yet myself, I think they need a few more years until they really get good. Though I have heard some running the red spectrum LED light to add the beneficial spectrum of light. Quite recently in fact...though not for tomatoes ;-)

I would guess you might have to double your lighting, add additional spectrum of bulbs, Add some reflectors, take GPS's advice on your nutrient program, and plant some basil to go with the yummy tomatoes you will be eating later this season.

FYI, I use the G.H. FloraMato nutrient for flowering and it may be used as a single part nutrient mix. I have had great results. That said, I still add additional supplements on top of that.

Good luck, and let us know if you get a picture of your setup.

Todd

Ok, since i just swapped out my nutes the night before i posted this i went and added the FlorGro. Shouldn't be much of an issue i wouldn't think, they might have gone half a day with out the FloraGro.

Atm i have 4 bulbs all together giving me 128w.

So you think i should feed them for 15min's and then off for 30min's might help? I just started the 1hr on/1hr off about 3weeks ago, just trying to come up with something to help the plant's start to produce.

Here are a few pic's of my set up. I def. appreciate everyones input and am not taking any of it lightly. We want Mater's badly. If i have to eat another store boughten tomato i'm going to puke.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/228.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/227.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/226.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/225.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/224.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...Ford74/223.jpg

Hey T'Mater-

I don't think your problem is with your nutrients.

I think your lights are way, way too high. Your plants have grown up in an effort to reach the light source. I will bet if you get those lights right down on top of the plants you will have a great deal more success.

However, I'm not sure you will have enough wattage there to really make those tomatoes grow, you may need to add some supplemental lighting, the more the better.

I too have used the General Hydroponics Flora series of nutrients and have had simply amazing growth on my Roma tomato plants. Mine are at the 90 day mark as well. Although the plants are only about 3 feet tall they are incredibly bushy and covered with blossoms, many of which are now bearing pea sized tomatoes.

Beautiful setup by the way. I am really impressed with how you did your system.

Good luck, keep up the good work!

Ya i'm really beginning to think the light set up is my problem to after reading everyone's thought's on it. Nother mishap of reading on my part. Since that pic i've lowered them to about 2inches or so from the plant's and am looking at just over all better/more lighting. Also thinking about covering the side wall's with reflective material to help with bouncing the light around.

This is a bit unclear to me because the actual wattage (not replacement equivalent) of the florescent bulb is the wattage (amount of electricity) that's being used. So I don't understand why you would multiply it by anything.

Hello T'Mater,
Good to hear the plants only went a day with the unbalanced nutrients, and you shouldn't see any ill effects from just one day with them. I don't grow under lights myself, because I use the sun (natural lighting). But I have seen online where florescent lighting will grow all kinds of fruiting plants. However, the amount of florescent lighting in the pictures wont even close to enough. As well as the light placement is inadequate for tall plants. The usable light drops off much quicker the farther away the bulb is from the foliage with florescent lighting, than it would with HID lighting. Even with more bulbs the tops of the plant may get enough of light, but that would be it the way the lights are positioned. The leaves a few inches down wont get enough light for proper photosynthesis, thus the tall spindly plants. That's why florescent's aren't typically used for taller plants (though it can be done).

Here are a few videos of florescent (T 8's or 12's I forget which) being used to grow a variety of fruiting plants (even a pineapple). Notice the vertical placement of the florescent tubes, and the amount of tubes (with spacing every couple feet) being used.

YouTube - ‪2/2/2010 grow room update‬‏
YouTube - ‪Video 6.wmv‬‏
YouTube - ‪Video 7.wmv‬‏
YouTube - ‪Growing floral flowers with hydroponics‬‏

But before you make any additional purchases, you'll want to compare the costs, as well as the pro's and cons between florescent and HID lighting. Find out your local costs. But here I can get 4 foot shop light fixtures (twin T 8's) for $18 (without bulbs) new at Lowe's. And a contractors pack of 12, 4 foot T'8 bulbs for $30. Or I can get 4 foot long twin T 5 shop lights for $35 at Home Depot (with the bulbs included), not sure about replacement bulb prices though.

Either way you'll want to add up the equipment costs, as well as materials needed to support the lights. Then compare that to the equipment costs for HID lighting, as well as fans for venting heat from that grow tent. That many florescent light fixtures will heat up the tent as well. Then you'll want to compare electrical costs to run both. Figure the wattage of each light fixture, multiply that by the total fixtures planed, and run it through this Electricity Cost Calculator (get the cost you pay per kilowatt from your electric bill). If the package dosen't have the total watts, you can calculate it by multiplying the amperage with voltage (actual voltage of the fixture 110V-115V-120V-125V etc., not the outlet voltage). My guess is in the end it would probably be more economical, and/or simpler to go with HID, or at least about the same.


P.S.
You can easily add pictures directly from your computer with the "manage Attachments button below the box where you type the text of the post (about the middle of the page). It makes viewing the pictures easier, as well as dosen't make the page so long Also very nice hydro setup you have going, look forward to seeing more of it.

Def. appreciate the info. thinking about possibly moving my tent outside and just using natural light. Atm i've opened up my garage door to let any/all of the sun's natural light come in.

Guess it's time to figure out what's the best solution.

How do i need to figure how much lighting i actually need?

And would adding reflective material to the sides of the tent help much?

Hey GPS, How you doing? I was trying to figure out how much light he had in his system, as he did not mention it in his first two posts...didn't know if he had 2 fixtures with 2 bulbs each, multiplied by 32 watts per bulb with a system wattage of 128 watts of florescent lighting , or 8 fixtures with 4 bulbs each at 32 watts a bulb, with a system total of 1024 watts.

That and my brain knows florescent wattage in T5ho's and how that relates to T8's. There are some people who are able to flower medicinal plants under florescent lighting but the quality and quantity are not ideal. Not sure if it is possible with tomato plants using 6500k bulbs regardless of the photo period.

Unless you are growing under florescent lighting on CRACK! Jeez nice videos you posted there, but I have to think he is almost using more wattage (draw) than he would be running MH and or HPS.


************************************************** *************

Yo T 'Mater (<<<----Still love that name)

Sweet setup man, Looks like you really looked into and/or got some sound advice on setting up your system. You a Crop King customer by any chance?

Ok, so I see you are running Bato Buckets. As you noticed in my post you just commented on, I run them as well. They do have a nice little 1/2 gallon-ish reservoir in the bottom to help if you miss a water cycle or something fails or you accidentally turn your timer to manual for 24 hrs...yes I did that...doh

It looks like you are figuring out your nutrients a little bit now, don't worry...at some point it begins to become second nature...so I am told...hehe

This year I really don't stress on my nutrient like I did last year. Some may disagree with me here, but you might want to drop your P.H. down to the 5.8 range and let it work up to 6.3 -6.4-ish range and then slam it back down...my 2-cents.

You look like you have thought out your build nicely, I am impressed...with the exception of your lighting. I am almost surprised you have such nice Vegetative growth with 128 watts of T8's at that height...Good Job.

I have to ask, where is your grow tent located? I can't help but notice the one end of your tent has more light coming into it than your florescent light appear to be putting out. Are the plants on that end growing better?

Thanks for putting up the pic's, as they say..."A picture is worth a thousand word!"

Todd

LOL, now that you asked me the ? the whole set up is in the garage. And yes at first the end plant's being closest to the door were growing the best. Didn't even think about the extra little light they were getting when opening and closing the door.

Atm tho, the plant's kind of in the middle of the system are growing the best. But yes those farthest from the door are smaller.

Ya, Crop King gave me the best deal on the buckets.

I will start leaving the garage door open while i'm at home to help with any xtra light.

Do you use the powder Ph Down or liquid?

You said you use the FloraMato dry, do you use that with the Maxigro and Maxibloom dry to?

Would it do any damage if i swapped from the FloraSeries liquid to the dry stuff.

Lol...I missed your 5:36 post...ok so it's in the garage, you don't have sufficient lighting at the moment... Just move the whole thing out....HOLY CRAP!!!

10 Day Weather Forecast for Nixa, MO - weather.com

I just checked your weather forecast...man I wouldn't even leave the house....If it drizzles outside this California Boy doesn't go out...THUNDER STORMS!

My guess is they are getting light from both fixtures...the ones in the middle.

Hey, I started my plants indoors this year... we actually got hit by some pretty credible weather this year...ended the California drought...and mandatory water restrictions have been lifted.

I pulled one of my 96 watt T5HO lights off my tank...24" by I dunno 8" and seeded all my tomato plants during the storms...I think you are going to have a great head start on everyone else... if you move those into natural sunlight (slowly to harden them off first) you will have a great harvest.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...n/IMG_0097.jpg

And a little 48 watt fixture one the left...

Oh, I see you were figuring the bulbs were 32 watts, and multiplying that by how many bulbs there were, for a total wattage used figure. That makes sense, but I'm sure not all florescent bulbs are 32 watts. Those videos are nice, they were done by a member of this forum (watercatwn6535nd) a while back, and rather than try to explain it, it was easier to post the links. I'm sure also that just going with HID lighting would be simpler, and cheaper when comparing the equipment needs for something like that. And the electrical cost would probably wind up being a wash as well, I would bet. But never the less it can be done if you wanted to. I may even try something similar in the future.

I don't really know of any charts, and I don't use artificial light, but for that space I'm sure you 1 400-600 watt MH or HPS would work fine for that space. Or even 2, 200-300 watt MH or HPS would be fine as well. Having two smaller wattage's will allow you to spread the light more evenly, and still supply the same amount of light. But I would call a few hydroponic shops, and compare what they suggest, but keep in mind their job is to sell you stuff, even if you don't really need it. That's why I would call a at least 3-5 hydroponic shops to see what the common thread of the advice they gave was, to use as a guide or starting point.

Reflective surfaces will help any type of lighting, but how much depends on how well you construct it, and how reflective the materials you use are. And as long as you already have them you could even use the HID light/s above, and the florescent on the sides or below for even better coverage. As for figuring out how much florescent lighting to use for using just florescent? Well, I would fallow the setup in the videos pretty closely if going that direction, especially+ for tall plants like tomatoes.

P.S.
I use earth juice dry crystal pH adjusters myself. You can easily switch from using one nutrient mix, to another. Just make sure you flush the system really good to get as much residual out of the system before switching. And don't try to mix two different lines of nutrients together.

Do you guy's have any online suggestion's as to where to buy nutes and stuff from?

I tend to buy from Amazon cause the closest Hydroponic store is 3-4hrs away. And i drive an '05 Ford Excursion V10. So it's still cheaper to have stuff shipped to me. LOL

That's how i got all my tomato plant's started and they came out like rocket's. It wasn't till i transplanted them into the main system where i started going wrong. Think i moved the light's up to quick...live and learn. Just glad i found this awesome site.

And yes, that's why we've been trying to figure out how to grow them indoor's till we can afford a real greenhouse stable enough to take the storm's. The saying around here is "If you don't like the weather right now, just wait 5min's"

It's 9:45am and already 73 outside, but we're supposed to have storms moving in, then it will cool for about 15min's and then get back up to around 80.

Went out and changed the light's to a 3000k, lowest i could find atm. I know it's just a bandaid. Have some great idea's for lighting up the tent. Now it's just time to weigh in the pro's and con's. But i think i'm going to do it now just to see the result's.

Def. appreciate everyone chiming in and helping me realise what is most likely the problem. If it wasn't for you all i'd def. be mater less and highly upset.

Flourescent Lighting
 

I'm just starting to grow indoors again (had a mini lemon tree... it made a good margarita). Anyway, flourescent lighting is usually recommended 1/2 and 1/2 for flowering/fruiting plants. Basically, if you use a 4 parallel tube system (which you kind of need for any plant), you would put 2 "plant" bulbs in and 2 soft white tubes. And since they're flourescent they need to stay about 6-8"" from the plants.

My advice... make friends with people in the construction industry that redo office buildings... they always just throw their light fixtures out, so just rewire them to plug in an outlet. You can get a $60 fixture for free. Inside your little tent, you'd probably need about 4 for the four fixture flourescents (16 total tubes) for tomatoes... they're little buggers that love sun.

Have another set of ?'s for you all.

Label on the Floramato say's to use with Maxigro or Bloom depending on the stage the plant is or do you tend to just use Floramato?

Also when do you switch nute's from grow to bloom? I switched to bloom thinking that would make my plant's want to start to produce. Was i supposed to wait till i actually seen flower's starting to form then start moving the nutes?

Besides the lighting, i've never been 100% sure when to increase and shift the nutes. That's why i'm amazed at how well my plants have done considering there caretaker is a tad bit impatient LOL.

And if i were to switch from the FloraSeries to the FloraMato,Maxi dry stuff. Do i just need to of course rinse out the holding tank. Do that every nute change anyway's. And then just let it run clean water for awhile to try and dilute/clean out the bottom of my bato bucket's?

When I switch to the Flowering nutrient, I run 100% Floramato, or rather I did last year. I also put a bunch of other stuff in too, Silica, Kelp, and H202 off the top of my head.

Rinse out your res, then add the new. I aim for about 1100 ppm myself. Do you "flush" your plants regularly?

Todd

Ya I think, I run nothing but clean water for about 15min, clean tub add fresh water and nutes.

I don't think that is the answer either, now with the planted tanks we often mix up the spectrum a bit to give the plants a broader range of light they can use. I will ask my buddy over at GreenLady hydroponic (<--- my local hydro store) what spectrum he likes in florescent light bulbs.

-------Minutes Later-------

Ok I just spoke to Dave and he is recommending you run 6400 k bulbs! What do I know...lol

I think you said you where running 6500k's...I will look around a little bit on this.

Your Nutrient levels, don't know, but I like running 1100ppm max. drops down to 900 no biggie. I am only running a 35 gallon res at the moment, so it drains out in 4 days or so.

FloraMato, mine says that it is a one part Dry Nutrient, and I use it as such. Though I do amend it with other goodies.

Now for rinsing...not just you reservoir but your plants too. When using salt based nutrients that you and I are both running, it is important to flush out not only the reservoir, the container the plants are growing in, but the roots of the plant themselves. There is something called "Nutrient Lockout" which can effect the plants ability to absorb the nutrients in the nutrient mix. Something about salt crystals clinging to the root, blocking absorption. One of the other guys here might be able to give you a better explanation.

You and I grow in the same containers, the Bato Buckets...remember that little reservoir in the bottom, that needs to be changed over, the media rinsed off (more or less) and the roots themselves. (You are running the elbos in the bottom of the bucket right?) Personally I fill my res. over night (it takes my R.O. unit about 8 hours to make 35 gallons), then allow it to run through a day, then I add fresh water. Only once a month do I actually clean out the reservoir.

Flush weekly
Clean reservoir monthly

Todd

Ya that's what i ment, i have a double end on my drip line, i unscrew the cap, turn the pump on and drain the tank. Take everything out, rinse. I take the tank i have and wash it in the bathtub. Fill with plane water stick my drip pump in and let it run nonstop for no less then 15min's. Prolly longer since the wife is home and making me do stuff.

I then take the drip pump back out and rewash the tub and fill it again, mix in my nute's and test.

Yes the bucket's i have, i got from Crop King, they have the elbow.

Kind of sounds like maybe i've been wasteing nutes? You guy's never totally empty your nute tanks?

And yes from what i've read, and GPSFrontier has helped with, it seem's the lower the K the more it helps the plant's want to flower, the higher up the K the more they want to folage. I can say this, just the short amount of time i've put in the 3000k bulbs, i can tell the plant's are growing different.

Yep i read the Floramato product package wrong.....

Hey all just wanted to thank you all again for chiming in and helping me figure out my problem.

As of right now, just the switch in light's i can tell that my plant's are getting bushier. And as funny as it sounds have started getting sucker's on them. Hadn't had any up until now.

Waiting for some more money then i'm off to put up more light's.

Hey Freshwater, is your system not a recirculating system?

We had great success in our greenhouse with straight Floramato the whole grow. Just added a bit of diamond nectar (humic/fulvic) and that was it.

Hey Mater,

My system is a recirculating drip. I don't like the drip to waste myself. Those systems are set up to deliver the absolute minimum amount of nutrients that the plants need IMO.

Todd

So how often are you all changing your nutes? And when you change your nute's do you completely drain your tanks and start over or ?

I tend to change mine about 7-10day's. Is that too soon? And when i change, i completely empty my nute tank and like i've mentioned before, run pure water through the system for at least 15mins.

And when do you know when to increase, or when to switch over from more of a growing formula to a bloom formula? I assume now you all are waiting till you see the first flower's start before switching over.

Personally I "change" or fill my reservoir right before the pumps run dry (or try too), there is usually about I dunno, 2-4 inches left in the bottom of my res. I go through my res. pretty quick 4-5 days depending on weather. I do not drain my res...I refill,

check PPM of filled tank...(usually 100-200 ppm) ((From residual Nutrient))
adjust my dry Nutrient for a target of 900-1000 ppm.
Add pre-dissolved nutrient to res.,
wait...then test ppm...target achieved

Add addition supplements (Silicone, Kelp) 200-ish ppm gain.
Open Beer...

Oh...and set P.H.

What kind of water are you running? I had assumed R.O. but I'm not sure if you are running tap/well water.

I drain and clean my reservoir every 4-8 weeks

OK, so nutrient lockout aside, crystals from salts on emitters aside, are you having any problems with the "general health" of your reservoir? Anything fuzzy, goopy, stringy, or oily growing in there? Any bugs?

Are you using H2o2? (hydrogen peroxide)

There is one other step I take when filling my reservoir, When it is down to a couple-few gallons, I will start the filling process which generally occurs over night when the pumps are not running. I add enough H2o2 for a full 30-35 gallons of nutrient, but...there are only a couple-few gallons in the tank. H2o2 is an oxidizer, and a great alternative if you don't want to use bleach when cleaning out a system.

The primary use for it is to help oxygenate the roots of the plants, but it also has a side effect of keeping the reservoir VERY healthy. I add a toxic amount to my reservoir, wait till it fills...or once I get my R.O. water holding tank installed...fill slowly over an hour. It cleans any algae of the pumps, side walls, delivery lines, air stone etc.

Once the reservoir is full, it is diluted to delivery strength for the plants.

So no, it's not too soon... just about right, but if your plants are not drinking it up, and the health/PPM/P.H. are fine you might want to try 2 weeks.

It depends, PPM is a finicky thing...the longer your res. runs, the more individual nutrients the plants uptake, so running your res. longer can deplete individual nutrients from your res. while your PPM looks fine.

Example - Your plants are in a 1000 PPM nutrient system, for whatever reason the plants are going extra crazy for Potassium, and sucking it out to zero, your PPM goes down to 800, you add more dry nutrient to kick you back up to 1000, but your plants are now deficient in K2So4, suck the potassium out of the newly added dry nutrient, and you now have an on going cycle of nutrient fluctuation and/or deficiency.

So now your PPM is within target range, but one individual nutrient is low...While others are increasing.

All this is just my opinion, and my understanding from waaay tooo much time researching this crap on the net, and in books. A bunch of it is from hands on experience as well. Hope I'm not too long winded.

Todd

From the time i fill it, to the time i change it. It doesn't hardly use any water. Now that the temp has risen some around here i'm having to add some to keep the EC down. It def. doesn't get anywhere near as low as your's.

I have a rainsoft water filter system for the whole house, so i use my tap water. But when i have to add more water i use my R.O water.

Water seem's to be clear, short of the color given to it by the nutrients. At the bottom of the tank you can tell the nutrients i think are settling but only after a solid week or more of being in the tank.

And no i haven't put any H202 in my system, should i and about how much?? For oxygen i have added 2x10" air stones.

And to make sure my plant's have been getting the right nutes they need that's anothe reason i dump and redo my entire system. Remember i was using GH FloraSeries, but do plan on swapping out to the Maxigro/Floramato nutes. I think it will be easier and more cost effective.

One more ? that came to mind. Am about to buy more nutes, and like mentioned i'm swapping over to Maxigro/Flormato.

My ? is, do i even need the Maxigro now that my plant's are as old as they are and should be in the blooming stage? I know Freshwater just used Flormato with some other stuff.

Not trying to make this the worlds longest thread, it's just that i've finally found ppl that have a clue as to what they are talking about and i like to pick brains.

The Maxigro and Flormato are two different product lines by general hydroponics. Flormato is a stand alone nutrient for continuously fruiting plants (like tomatoes, squash, and peppers), thus it's formulated for all stages of growth of continuously fruiting plants (plants that grow both foliage and fruit at the same time).

The Maxigro product line separates vegetative growth and blooming stages into two different formulas. This is more for plants that grow vegetation in the beginning, then in the last stage grow fruit or bloom (like broccoli). Or plants that you don't really want to bloom anyway (like lettuce, green onions, and spinach) where you want it to focus on growing only foliage (then you would only use the grow formula the whole grow). You can also use it for continuously fruiting plants if you want to get the plants to focus more on foliage in the beginning (using the grow formula), then switching to growing fruit (switching to the bloom formula). But neither the Grow or Bloom of the Maxigro product is specific for continuously fruiting plants. Long story short, if you are growing continuously fruiting plants, the Flormato is all you'll really need.

I use about 5 mL (1tsp) H2O2 (standard 3%) per gallon of water in my systems once to twice a week. Though I have been known for using as much as 10 ml, or not really even measuring, and just pouring some in for older established plants. I just dumped in about 3/4 to 1 cup of H2O2 in my pepper reservoir today (20 gallons in that reservoir). One cup (237 mL) is about 12 mL per gallon in a 20 gallon reservoir. The H2O2 not only adds dissolved oxygen, but helps keep disease and pathogens at bay. So for me I use it for both reasons. I buy it at the dollar store 4-5 (32 oz) bottles at a time. I now also use it for a lot of other things like cleaning dish sponges (soaking it overnight). I used to heat the sponges in the microwave to cook the bacteria, but it would sometimes melt the sponge. The H2O2 kills the bacteria and without damaging the sponge.

Gotcha, see I got confused on the Flormato cause it say's on the product label..

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/ge..._dry_1.5lb.pdf

Use Maxigro for the veg. stage and then switch over to FLormato. Sorry for the basic repeat ?'s. Think one of my problem's is i over think the situation and being my first time i'm really hoping for at least 1 tomato by winter LOL...


Bryon

Hey GPS,

Good hook up on the H202...I am VERY curious about it. I am using a hydroponics product, I am paying 22 bucks for 4 litres (about a gallon) of Nutrilite 29% Oxidizer. Is the H2o2 3% going to work out cheaper?

Todd

Hey Freshwater,
I'm not familiar with the Nutrilite 29% Oxidizer product, But assuming it is just 29% H2O2, then it's the same thing just 10 times stronger than the 3% H2O2 I use. To equal 4 liters of the 29%, you would need 40 liters of the 3% (40, 32 oz bottles). I don't know if you get the 29% locally, but if you need to have it shipped (like I would), it would work out about even if the 4 liters of the 29% is $22 +shipping. But I don't really go through that much to really worry about it. If I used large quantities, I would consider using the 30%-35% H2O2, and just diluting it. I pay $1 for each 32 oz bottle at the dollar store, and $1.06 for it at walmart.

But the 30% H2O2 is caustic and can burn skin on contact, and just a tiny bit in your eyes could easily cause permanent eye damage. The 3% is safe to use, in fact it's meant to put on your skin as an antiseptic for cuts, burns etc. to prevent infection. That's why it's located in the pharmacy isle ("hydrogen peroxide"). So I just don't need to worry about wearing any protective gear. You just don't dilute it as much as the 30% (because it's already diluted). So I would need to regularly go through quite a bit before I considered using the 30% stuff myself.

I have flower's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

awesome!!!!!!

Ok, i have one last favor from you all using FloraMato, how many tsp per gallon do you all use for plant's just starting to produce flower's.

I still haven't gotten any actual fruit, and i just got my FloraMato and am about to flush and start fresh with my plant's.

Never mind, i figured out my own ?, basically i just add to desired PPM, think it's the heat getting to me LOL

Well thought i'd give a little update and will get pic's when i can. I've swapped over to FloraMato and the plant's are going bonker's growing and wanting to produce flower's.

Problem is i still don't have enough light, so with the wife and kids help this Wed. they will be moving on outside. And i think i'm going to be in tomato heaven then.

I plan on keeping them in that little greenhouse, i might pull up the side's to let air move better.

How do you guy's deal with rain water in your outdoor systems?

Very cool T'Mater,

One word of caution, as you have been vegging these guys out under florescent lighting. You are going to want to harden them off prior to putting them into full sun. I would put up some type of shade cloth, and gradually remove it over a week.

Make sure your plastic green house doesn't get too hot. Remember it's designed to retain heat. Are you in an area that is/was seeing those double digit temp. numbers?

Oh, and what is this rain you speak of? Is that the stuff that falls out of the sky in the winter?

In the winter I let it fill my reservoir, then adjust my p.h. and nutrient PPM after...remember rain is generally pure good water. Though I think you might get a hell-of-a-lot more rain than I do. You might need to devise a cover...not plastic!!! Remember our little green house heat retention system...same thing, and you don't want to cook your roots.

I've seen some of the farms that run Crop King equipment cut Styrofoam "plugs" that the plants grow up through. Might be worth looking into if you get that must rain.


Todd

I personally don't usually get that much rain to worry about. But if it does rain, the little amount of water that makes it into my system and reservoir, is just that much less water I need to add/replace from what the plants drink up. And with the reservoir placed underneath a table or bench, very little rain water can make it's way inside from the reservoir itself. I also keep an eye on the 10 day weather forecast in my area at intellicast.com (just put in your zip for your local weather forecast). If there's heavy rain forecasted, I just plan my nutrient changes for after the heavy rains.