My Very First Setup
 

Hello All Well Finally I Have My Small Setup Up and Running ... For Now Now I'm Starting Small Trying To Grow One Plant (Cucumber Indoors) In My Kitchen.. DWC 1 Air Pump ! Air Stone, Using 3.5 Gallon buckets, Made Grow Tent , Climate Running Humidity 51 to 54% , Day Average Temp 82 & Nite Average Temp 73 to 77,, 2 Light Setup For Now CFL 1 65w, warm 2700k and 1 85w 5800k daylight but one slight set back Cuke plant Was Planted On 10-4-14 and popped up on 10-7-14 and as of today 10-14-14 One plant not lookin hot kinda spotty other ones looks good can some one help me tell me if I have issue thank you...Attachment 2724 Attachment 2725

Hi bigdaddy

Iv just recently started dwc......im just wondering what your water temps are because i had a few issues with mine and bought chiller.

Current Climate; Humidity 45% & Temp 81 & Water 65 to 66,, but I have new problem now the true leaves have hint of yellowing round edges also current fertilizer is at half strength

The first two leaves will always die and fall off quickly. They have served their purpose to the plant by then. Half strength nutrients for plants that size is plenty. Humidity could be higher though. Especially for seedlings. Try using a humidity dome to hold in humidity. 70%-80% humility would be much better for seedlings. Just make sure air temp under the dome doesn't get to high or you will have another problem.

P.S.
I'm sure you already know, but that lighting will quickly become inadequate as the plants get bigger.

Thanks For The Advise...Yes I Know Lighting Will Need to Be Greater I plan to Buy 8 Tube T5 Week After Next, As For Humidity I Have Warm Mist Humidifier , My current Lighting Is 85w CFL 5,800 lumens Daylight & 65w CFL 2700k Lumens 3,900
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You are trying to grow fruiting plants with florescent lighting. If you want to actually get good produce from it you'll need to switch over to HID lighting. Or step up your florescent lighting 10 fold. Florescent lighting looses intensity very quickly, and you will need to surround the plant with lighting from all sides (not just from the top). For my money I would switch to HID. That is unless your supplementing the florescent with natural sunlight, then it might work if the natural light is good enough.

P.S.
I know it's not the best news, but I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I didn't warn you about potential problems before you experience them. Also you don't need to humidify the whole room, just the seedlings. A humility dome doesn't cost anything to run, but it seems you would need two of those humidifiers to get the rooms humidity up to 70%-80% humility. Don't skimp on air circulation as the plants get bigger either..

Hey Don't Fret.. To Hear The Real Deal Is Best... For Me its About Cost$ $$$ Plus To HPS & HID Are Very Sensitive & Needs More Care Plus To Run Them Cost Wise Is Double Of Which I Want, I Have Seen People With Good Results But Never Show Or Explains Steps One needs To Take Or Go Threw Growing Under T5 (432watt x 40,000 Lumens).. My Setup Is Only 2ft x 4ft x 6.5ft... Also I Run Fan 24/7.. I'm Doing This To Learn And Because I Have Nothing To Do

Everything is a learning experience. I have too many things to do at the same time. But hay, I still try...

And My First Time I Tried In Soil Man I Didn't D So Hot Period! Lol Either I Over Watered or Had Mealy Bugs Then Started Seeing aphids Then I Said xxxxxx That And Made Switch To Hydro Seems Like This Better For Me But I Thank You For Taking Time To Give Me Ur Input

Just what everyone else said you'll need more cfls as side lighting or stand up fluorescent tubing. The hps lights are hot and you will need to vent all that heat away from your box. But the cfls can produce great fruit . ..the two yellow leafs are called ....erm ...i forget? (congtigons) ??? But they act as food for the young seedlings......its natural for them to yellow and die off :)

Happy growing.....have a look into getting some good bacteria ( bennies ) for your water .....there good for roots and nutrient uptake and eat all the old dead organic stuff in your water and bad bacteria. Good luck

Ya, you can grow fruiting plants with florescent lighting, but not worth it in my opinion and for my money. By the time you add all the florescent tubes you'll need for good plant and fruit growth for that kind of plant, I don't see there being any benefit to using florescent. That many tubes will cause a heat issue as well, and when you add up all the wattage, you can just as easy use HID for the same energy cost (if not cheaper).

Cfls are cooler than hps ...i cant use hps because the space is too small id need a cool tube and vents. ..so i stick to cfl.

Iv got 400w cfl .....if i use 400w hps my plants will fry...i don't know why.

Because HPS Has High Power Demand I'm Guessing Also Thy Are Brighter And Will Make You Blind Those Are For Serious Growers With Ton Of Plants,, I Used To Work In A GE Warehouse they had tons of the HPS they shipped out that's how I knew.. but I to have small space in fact my 2ft x 4ft x 6.5ft setup is in my kitchen one bedroom apartment I planed my setup for just 2 plants at a time that's why I want T5 HO,, I been searching for info all day found that T5 HO 53w has 5,000 lumens so 8 tubes be 40,000 lumens on par with and 250w HID setup and cost a lot less

Exactly ...those big time grower's need hps for big grows ...but the cfl are good for homegrown stuff :)

The experts ussually say the cfl are shit..
.but theve never used them ( some anyway lol)

Hps are way to hot for a small grow.

You can get them really close as well with no worry of burn.lol

Tommy Let Me Ask You This .. Is It True You Have To swap Out Ur Digital Light Timer Like Every Year? Guy At Hydro Store Told Me This I'm kinda leary Maybe Im Wrong

Iv never heard that before, all i use are the plug in timers. Some hydro shops would tell you to swapped your timer ever day if they could get away with it. Its the same with hydro nutriens.....everyone i know only use half of what is recommended on the packet of measurements....youve got to carefull ....dont fall for the hydro brand names.

That's Wtf I Thought I Gotta Watch Those S.O.B's lol Funny Thing is they prices are dam near double of other places where i live I don't have to many choices where to shop unless I order online...Question how often do u Replace Your CFL/T5? Every Year or Two Years?

They are double ....if not more.

I get mine from the photographic section on ebay or amazon , 1 hydro 115w cjl----£20 <<<<< that's what they cost in the hydro section.

1 PHOTO 115w cfl <<< note the PHOTO....£5

Its recommended to change once a year which is fine by me , i just use the old ones for side lighting or seedlings .( seedlings don't need as much light.......they wont go to waste.

You might want to look into flower boosters PK 13/14......DONT FALL FOR THE BRAND MY FRIEND!! Lol

Check out mono-potassium phosphate powder on ebay or amazon......its PK 13/14 but without the brand and is stronger......good for the flower stage of your growth ;)

What is it your thinking of growing then ???

Here update ; Humidity 65% Tent Half Open Half To keep It That Way Or Humidity go up to almost 100% & Temp 81f .....Things seem okay looks like no progression of yellowing round edges . maybe it because I added some more nutrients and pinch of salt but here take look
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Comparing lumen output of florescent lights to HID is like comparing apples to oranges. The biggest difference (besides light wavelength spectrum) is how far from the bulb those lumens can actually go. With florescent lighting that range is very short. That 5,000 lumen rating is only at the bulb, it's drastically lower anything beyond 6 inches to 1 foot. That's not the case with HID. The light intensity of hid reaches much farther (4-5 times). As an example, at about 3 feet from the plant, florescent lighting will have almost no value to the plant. With HID, at the same 3 foot distance the plant will still get 50%-60% of the bulbs output.

I have only seen one person grow large healthy fruiting plants like cucumbers, melons and tomatoes. If I were to want try growing those kind of plants using florescent, I would do it exactly the same way. Every light fixture was mounted vertical (straight up and down) facing the plant. They were 4 foot long twin bulb fixtures. Now he did modify his light fixtures to overdrive the energy output. But he was also using T8's, but if your using T5's, you'll have roughly the same light output as his overdriven T8's. He placed these light fixtures vertically every 2 feet along the row facing the plants, and on both sides of the rows as well. He had so many of these lights in his basement, it heated his whole house during the winter. Now, given your space of 2ft x 4ft x 6.5ft. To do it the same way it would take 6, 4 foot long twin bulb T5' light fixtures. One in each corner, and one on both sides right in the middle at the 2 foot mark.

Now for costs. I can get 4 foot long twin T5' light fixtures at Home depot for about $40 (bulbs included). $40x6= $240, and that doesn't include the cords and plugs you'll need to wire and plug in the lights. Including tax, electrical cord, and plugs, the lighting setup will cost roughly $300. Those 6 twin bulb fixtures take two 53 watt bulbs each, that's 12, 53 watt bulbs. 12x53= 636 watts being used. I pay 9.3 cents per kilowatt hour, and you can use this energy cost calculator to run your own numbers.

636 watt florescent lighting (18 hour light period)
Light setup $300
Daily energy cost------------------$1.06
monthly energy cost (30 days)-----$31.80

Even your lower light less effective 8 tube plan would still use 424 watts
Daily energy cost------------------$0.71 a day
monthly energy cost (30 days)-----$21.30

Now using HID for the same space. Two 100 to 150 watt bulbs will give better lighting than the florescent and cost much less.

Two 100 watt HID bulbs
Daily energy cost------------------$0.33
monthly energy cost (30 days)-----$9.90

Two 150 watt HID lights
Daily energy cost------------------$0.50
monthly energy cost (30 days)-----$15.00

That's why I say for my money, I would much rather use HID for large fruiting plants rather than florescent. Any way I look at it, I'd get much better light intensity, and cheaper energy costs. I'm not interested in growing a $6 cucumber when I can get them at the store for 89 cents. Can you grow them using less florescent lighting. Sure but due to low light levels you just wind up with smaller under developed fruit. The less light, the smaller and more under developed they will be.


P.S.
A watt is a measurement of heat energy, and no mater what, a watt of heat is still a watt of heat regardless of the type of bulb. 400 watts of florescent lighting puts out the same amount of heat as a 400 watt HID. Why it seems like it's cooler is because the heat (watt) source is more concentrated in one place with HID. You need multiple bulbs spread over a larger area with florescent, so it's not concentrated in one place. If you go outside on a sunny day the sun feels warm on your skin. But if you take a magnifying glass and focus the light in one spot on your skin, it will begin to burn. It's the same amount of heat, you just concentrated it in one spot. In a space like that 4x2x6 area you should have ventilation anyway. Placing the fan's at the bottom blowing upward will help push the heat out the top as heat rises anyway.

There you go bigdaddy ...light info from am expert ill be taking on board some off that info...thanks.

I still cant understand the heat problem people get with hps like having to use cool tubes and ait venting when people with cfl don't? ....it didn't make sense but your all your info on cost and heat with hps seem correct..

I have 300w of cfl for one plant.....if i was to buy 300w of hps i would fry my plants and id need venting to cool grow box down....?

Big daddy....alot of people use florescent lights for the veg period then switch to the hps for flower....its an option mate.

Hey Tommy Say One My True leaves Not Looking So Hot But Other ones look okay to me (Not Talking About the Seed leaves) Edges Looking Weird Wonder If Im Doing Something Wrong??
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in my experience it doesn't look too much to worry about ....keep an eye on them.

It could be a tiny bit of nute burn, or abit of light burn, it could even be where you've been touching them with your fingers ? ........ Not much to worry about but id keep an eye on .

okay I will do,, I also took look at roots they look nice and white reaching way down in bucket however they starting to tangle up a little bit but I keep eye out

Hello Bigdaddy216,

My first thoughts are the humidity is still too low at 45%. 65% to 85% is much better for the plants, you just want to stay under 90% as long as you have good air circulation (which the plants need anyway). But I have a few questions that could be other potential issues:

1. What is the pH, and are you checking it daily?
2. What nutrients are you using and are you fallowing manufactures instructions (other than 1/2 strength)? Do you have a link to the nutrients?
3. You made a reference to salt "maybe it because I added some more nutrients and pinch of salt." What type of salt are you referring to? Salt (sodium chloride) is toxic to plants. However Epsom salt is is different. But unless the nutrients your using require adding Epsom salt, that's unnecessary and could raise Magnesium levels to toxic levels as well.
4. How are these plants being watered, and what is the water level in the buckets?
5. If they are on a timer, what is the on/off cycle?
6. Is the top of the growing media moist or dry?
7. Is there a chance there is any tiny water droplets getting on the leaves.
8. Are the plants getting good air circulation?
9. How old are the plants?
10. What is the nutrient solution look like? Is it clear or cloudy? Does it smell bad (musty)?

[QUOTE=GpsFrontier;12120]Hello Bigdaddy216,

My first thoughts are the humidity is still too low at 45%. 65% to 85% is much better for the plants, you just want to stay under 90% as long as you have good air circulation (which the plants need anyway). But I have a few questions that could be other potential issues:


Okay Here info u wanted to know
1. Humidifier Run 7am Till 9pm (Bedtime) (Humidity 65 to 71%)
2. Masterblend 4-18-38 (See Link Below)
3. Average Room Temp 75 to 80f & Inside Tent No higher Than 82f
4. 12in Fan On 24/7
5. DWC Setup, Air stone in Bottom Bucket Air pump On 24/7
6. Lights On 7am Till 9pm 12hr
7. Started Plants On 10-4-14
8. top of the growing media is dry YES
9. I Keep Water Level 1.5in Above Bottom Of Net pot
10 Started Feeding Plant on 10-14-2014 Half Strength

11..I Measures Out Fertilizer In Grams On Digital Scale
(12g,MB 12,g Calcium Nitrate 6g Epsom Salt) = 30g Then Cut That Back To (15g)

12.. I Mix The Solution For 5 Gallons Then Pour Enough To fill 3.5 Gallon Bucket

13. Do I Check Ph Daily (No).. I Only Do That At Water Change
14. Water Seems Okay ,, Don’t Smell


Tomato Formula 4-18-38

P.S
This Where I Learned Everything I Know This Guy MHPgardener He
Show How To Setup Hydroponic and what he use for fertilizer and if u look u se his result
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXy32Dr4Z4A

P.S.
 

P.S.
oTOMMYo
Absolutely, Florescent lighting is great for starting plants and seedlings. As well as even economical for non fruiting plants like different varieties of lettuce, as well as herbs if done right. You still don't want to skimp, you still want to have a good healthy amount of light. But fruiting plants have much higher light requirements/needs because they are also taking on the load of producing the fruit. Non fruiting plants don't have that load. Plants like cucumbers, melons, tomatoes, strawberry's, peppers, etc. are continuously fruiting plants. They don't have separate veg/flowering stages. They do both at the same time, and it's quite common for them to begin fruiting when their no more than 4-6 inches tall, and would want to upgrade their lighting by then.

As an example of using florescent lighting economically for growing lettuce. You could grow up to 18 butter lettuce heads (if spaced right in 3 rows) with two 4 foot long twin bulb T5 lights (212 watts). At 35 cents a day for 18 hours of light, times 30 days, that comes out to $10.50 a month. If you rotated the crop and harvested three heads a week, that would give you 6 weeks (standard for lettuce) to go from seedling to harvest. Essentially costing $0.58 per head of lettuce for electricity. You can even use three twin bulb T8 fixtures. That would equal about the same light output as the two twin T5 fixtures, and at 32 watts a bulb (x6) be close to the same wattage (192) as the 4 T5 bulbs. But the three fixtures may give more even coverage over three rows of plants. Either way would cost basically the same to run ($0.32 a day for 6 T8's- or $0.35 a day for 4 T5's).

Hello Bigdaddy216,
I'm sorry I could have sworn you said your humidity level was about 45%. But 65 to 71% isn't bad.

1. I know you have a fan, but I'm not there to tell if the air is circulating well.

2. I looked at the link you provided for the nutrients, and I'm not the manufacture, but to me it looks like you may have mixed them wrong for seedlings. Both instructions for seedlings say 1/2 of the quantity of Calcium Nitrate, and Magnesium Sulfate than that of the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. But you say you are mixing the same amount of the Calcium Nitrate as the CHEM-GRO 4-18-38. In other words assuming your math is correct for breaking down the 100 gallon amounts to 5 gallon amounts. It looks to me that you should be using 12g CHEM-GRO 4-18-38, 6,g Calcium Nitrate, and 6g Epsom Salt instead. Cutting back the calcium nitrate by 50%. The example at the bottom shows 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, 1/2 lb, but that's for larger plants I believe. Near the top of the page for SEEDLING PLANTS it shows using 50% calcium nitrate for seedlings. But you can always e-mail Hydro-Gardens to be sure.

3. You should check the pH every day. It can change for many reasons, and can cause many problems, but you will never know if it changed if you don't check it. later on you can go longer between checking pH once you have the hang of things. But I strongly recommend you check it every day in the beginning. Also I would suggest using pH drops instead of a electronic pH meter. Electronic meters can give false reasons, but pH drops never will. And you don't need to be at an exact pH, you just want to be in the right pH range, and that's very easy to tell with drops.

4. Why did you add extra Epsom salt?
5. I don't think you have had to yet, but if you have needed to add more water back, did you add fresh water or nutrient solution?

P.S.
I like that guys dutch bucket system, but I would probably just use my old standard rock and coco fiber for the growing media. I can get all the rock I want free from my back yard (and is easy to clean and sanitize), and I like the better drainage with it at the bottom, as well as it adds weight I need to keep the wind from blowing things over (he is growing inside out of the wind). Also I would light proof the buckets, either by painting them or wrapping bubble wrap insulation around them. Not sure the size of his reservoir, but in my area for tomato and pepper plants I would want at least 4 gallons water volume per plant (including what's inside each bato bucket), but would prefer 5 gallons per plant (it's hot and dry with very low humidity all year long here in the desert). Here they can easily suck up over two gallons of water per plant each day.

Ok so no1 I need to check PH level everyday and far az buckets go their all black kinda their not see threw.. but I think I add some reflective radiant barrier round bucket to help maybe keep lil more warm and added protection to block light... now far ass nutrient goes I mixed mines according to mhpgardener and I just cut it in half to 15grams pre 5 gallon bucket then poured that into my 3.5 gallon bucket I thought I was doing right ,,,,now for air circulation I know u cant tell from here lol but I basically have tent half open all time not closed up so air flows better with fan inside and my humidity was 40% to 50% I upped that to round 70% like u told me first time I came here I think it was u that told me humidity was to low im not sure ,,, and yes I did add a pinch salt to water when I looked at it couple days ago.. but all in all my math is bad real bad sorry to say

You need to listen to ^^^^ this guy about your PH .....its so important.....if its wrong it will lock out your nutrients from your plant ( your plant wont feed ) and you'll think you've not added enough nutrients..... So you'll add more to the water and nothing happens and its just problem after problem which could have been fixed with the right ph.......PH VERY IMPORTANT!!!

any nutrient deficiency needs addressing from the PH first.

Im actually thinking of going hps now after reading you can get 100/150 watters..........looks like were both gonna learn from these hydro vetrans ;)...........happy days.

He asked About How I Do Things & What I Do So I Told him
Now As He Saying I Need To Check PH every Day ..Because I was only checking that when I change water to make sure its between 6.5 and 6.8 so now I just do total nutrient change out in morning

Big daddy ....you mentioned putting insulation round your bucket to keep them warm?......... If your water gets too warm you'll be giving bacteria and all the bad stuff a nice warm place to do there thing ( problems ).....thats where the good bacteria comes in ( bennies ) they kill the baddies and colonise your roots with great benifits ......hence ' beneficial bacteria '


.......or you can chill the water so the bacteria cant live ( 16°c )....good or bad.

so way I see it .. my lack of check water PH is starving the plant of it nutrients ...

ok what are bennie?

No .....only if your ph is out. That's why he said check everyday until you get used to it ....you may only need to check it weekly once you've got it right but because its your first new setup its best to check daily for a while .

When you start a grow and put fresh water and nutrients in the bucket with correct ph you might find if you check in 2 days that its gone out abit ......

Youll be fine mate .

Bennies is short for beneficial...... Beneficial bacteria or good bacteria.....do a google search on them im new to the bennies myself iv been using a water chiller.if your bucket water gets too warm it gives the bad bacteria a nice warm environment to live. .....you either add bennies or chill the water to kill the bad bacteria..

Hello Bigdaddy216,
I was really making a comment about the bato buckets in the video you posted the link to. I wasn't referring to your setup. Your buckets looked black, and I believe you stated your water temp was about 65 to 66. I assume that is Fahrenheit otherwise, WOW. Your water temp is fine. The optimum range is between 68 and 72 Fahrenheit. a few degrees either way is no problem. You just don't want it to get into the 80's or it can lead to problems like heat stress, as well as unwanted bacteria, fungi, and microorganisms (thus pathogens). Pathogens are any living organism (plant or animal) that harms the plant, and like tommy mentioned they thrive best in warm water. They will always be in your system, but if the water temps get high they thrive and begin to outnumber the beneficial microbes that are in your system as well and keep them in check. Then when outnumbering the beneficial microbes there is nothing to keep them from multiplying out of control.

I wouldn't worry about pathogens much right now in your system, your water temps are fine, you said the roots look nice and white, and you said the water looks and smells fine. So I don't really see any signs that you have a problem with pathogens.

I asked about air circulation on your plants because if there is standing moisture on the leaves, mold spores can germinate and the mold feeds on the plant. Giving your plant a fungal disease. Often times the first signs of this is spots on the leaves, so I just wanted to be able to eliminate it as a possible problem. It's also why I asked if there was any chance tiny water droplets are splashing on the leaves. That happens a lot with top drip irrigation systems, the water hits the grow rocks and tiny droplets splash on he leaves. Especially for small seedlings because people want it to get as close to the plant as possible because the root system is so small at that point. You can easily get standing water on the the leaves in high humidity (which the plants love) if you don't have good air circulation to the plants foliage.


Before you change your nutrients tomorrow, I would still check the pH before you do. Simply because if you don't you will never know if it was out of range in the first place. Normally for seedlings that small I would easily let it go a month before changing the nutrients because the plants that size are to small to use enough to deplete the nutrients in it. But I would still change them in your situation because you added extra Epsom salt, and from what I can tell it looks like you may have used too much calcium nitrate for this stage. Make sure you double check and triple check your math first if you have any question it may not be right. Otherwise it's just a waste of good nutrients dumping having to dump it out later, because your not sure. Not to mention could be stressful to your plants if it's not right.

I cant ell you how many times I have done a nutrient change and lost track of how much of what I already added (someone asks you a question, the dog barks, etc.etc..). One distraction and you forgot how many teaspoons you added. You cant take it out once you put it in, so check your math first. For dry nutrients I like to put it in a measuring cup before adding it to the water. That way if I loose track I can just pour it back in the container and start over. You can do the same with liquid nutrients as long as you add each part to the water separately, and rinse the cup out between each one you need to add.

P.S. Bigdaddy216
Like I mentioned I wouldn't worry about pathogens right now because from what you've said I don't see any signs their out of control. But if your interested I like to use these:

SubCulture-B (for the Trichoderma fungi)
and
Earth Juice Rooters (for the Mycorrhizae fungi)

oTOMMYo and Bigdaddy216
Also, if either of you are interested in learning more about beneficial microbes send me a private message with an e-mail address, or contact me through my e-mail address on the "contact us" page of my website, and I'll send you the articles I have in text documents on the subject.

Growing indoors is like a house of cards.... Loads of small bits to get right , but if one is out of place the house falls down .


Your environment is so important , even the small things like air flow or humidity.......if there not right .....non of it is . :).