New to Hydroponics - Want to Build a System With a Budget of $650
 

I joined this forum to ask for some help on building a system. I have a budget of $650, I can go somewhat over but prefer not to. I been searching all over Google for days but have not really found anything useful for me. I don't want one of them 5-gallon bucket systems.

I'm hoping to use PVC on this system, just because I think it looks better.

This system will always be outside until winter.

I plan on growing tomatoes and peppers as a first start. Also, I live out in the open so this will have nothing from blocking the sun.

I already have some stuff towards building one;

• Hydrofarm 1000-GPH Active Aqua Submersible Pump
• General Hydroponics Flora Series QT - FloraGro, FloraBloom, and FloraMicro
• General Hydroponics Ph Control Kit
• Hydroton Leca Clay (6 pounds)
• 60 3" Net Pots

So if maybe anyone could link me to a step-by-step guide that would be great. :p

Welcome to the site! I'm sure someone here will be able to help you. First of all you need to figure out what type of system you want. Check out the pictures of the set ups people posted here.

Your Hydroponics Setup - Hydroponics Forums Discussions

When you have decided what type of system you want you will need to figure out how many plants of each you want to grow and what varieties you would like.

From the list of things you already have I would include an air pump and air stones to aerate the reservoir you will need.

$650 is a lot to work with, I could build at least 4 systems with that much money. Tomatoes are tricky... I grew some in a 4" pvc pipe and I never will attempt that again; lots of roots, plugging and backflowing. Maybe a 8" pipe would work but I will only grow them in buckets or 55 gal barrels cut in half.
With pvc you have two methods of growing, NFT and flood and drain. NFT will utilize your net pots and you can grow much closer together then traditional gardening. The pro's are you can keep the nutes flowing past the roots, grow dense and utilize verticle growing. The con's are you are dependant on power and temps can be a big factor.
Flood and drain; by cutting out the top section of the pipe and filling with pea gravel or pearlite making net cups not necessary, but you can still use them. Flood and drain allows more options of what you can plant like some root vegies like carrots and onions. Con's are you are still dependant on power but have a longer grace period. Temps are also still an issue but depending on your medium you can midigate it somewhat. Pro's are the system is heavyer so it will not blow over as easily, you can still grow verticle and still grow denser then tradition gardening.

I will be experimenting with the "Alaska bucket system", not true hydroponics but real close. Maybe an option for those maters :)

In the pict of the double pvc system, the top is NFT and the bottom pipes are flood and drain.
Just some more examples...

Tracy

Do you have the build plans for the 4th of July one?

Nope, just winged it but I can tell you how I made it and what I would do different...

I purchased 5 lengths of not pvc but the thin walled drain field pipe. It is black on the inside and white on the outside. There are two kinds, one with holes and one without, you do not want the one with the holes. (at Home Depo they are outside in the garden area) I purchased 90* elbows (2 each) for each end to connect them and used one of the pipes to cut small lengths to connect the elbows. The length of this fitting will determin how close your pipes are together. So with something like lettuce they can be fairly close like 6" pieces but for anything that spreads like maters or beans you are gonna want 1' pieces. You also need two end caps. I purchsed two bulkheads (I think that is what they are called) at a hydro store for the tubing to both fill and drain.
For the stand, I just purchased two sawhorse kits at harbor freight and used some 2 x 4's I already had.
The thing I would do different is to place the pipe on top of a 2x4 to give the pipe more stability and to make it easier to adjust the level of each pipe. the 1st pipe where the nutes enter will need to be about an inch higher then the pipe with the drain and each pipe will have to have a slight slope from one end to the other so the nutes flow thru. I used just off bubble for the slope.
I used a large rubbermaid tote for the nutes but gave up on it pretty fast because it will not hold it's shape and lets the light in. I used a 55 gal barrel to hold the nutes and it works great. You can partically bury it or make a cover out of the styrofoam sheets to keep it dark and cool during the summer.
Your pump does not need to be very powerfull and you may need to make some sort of adjuster on the pump or tubing to limit the flow. When looking for a pump don't look at the gpm, look at the max pump hight and pick one that is rated for about a foot higher then your project. So if you pipes sit at 4' pick one with a 5' max head height.
I will post some picts of the "bulkheads" that I used.

So the first pict shows how I did the ends and how I used 2x4 under the pipes to help adjust the levels. The second photo shows the fill and drain ends, notice the clear tubing that I had to cover with pipe insulation to keep it alge free and cool. I was experimenting with some black pipe that was already insulated from Home Depot with the drain side. The next two picts are of the bulkhead from a different project. On the system you are interested in, drill the holes on an edge and not in the center so you can turn the end cap to adjust the water level in the pipes. The fill hole should be on the top so the splash creates air bubbles. The drain cap can be adjusted for both overfill problems, temp control (more water in the system keeps it cooler) and diffrent levels for plant roots (needs to be higher when they are first placed in the system and can be lowered as the roots grow). As you can guess, this is not a traditional NTF system because the water level is much higher to both reach the net pots, keep the system cooler and incase of a power loss, the roots never go dry. I also had an air pump in the nutes, just a cheap one from Wal-Mart works great.
Did I miss anything?

I think I have an idea now, thanks for your reply!

Good luck. Post some pictures!

Just went to the store, it seems they want $20 per pipe?? It's schedule 40, is that the one I should go with?

I just used the drain pipe cuz it's a lot cheaper but it's not as sturdy. You will know it because its rippled, thinner, black on the inside (to block out the light for the roots) and white on the outside. It is not usually kept with the PVC.

They don't seem to have anything like that at Home Depot or lowes in my area, figures lol

I will just have to go with the schedule 40 tomorrow.

If I'm right I would do 3 cups of nutrients for for 55 gallons right?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm very new :P

At my Home Depot, it's kept outside in the garden area next to the building.

3 cups of what kind of nutrients? Are you puting seedlings in the system or mature plants?

You will just have to read the instructions as it varies so widely from brand to brand. If you are putting seedlings or very young plants in, you will want to delute it even further like only use 1/4 strength and slowly increase the ratio. Otherwise you will just be burning the plants and wasting nutes. IMHO, they plants only need full strength when they are flowering or fruiting. Lettuce and like plants never get over 50% solution of nutes cuz they don't need it.
You want to make sure you are putting like nutrient requirement plant together. You would not put tomatoes and lettuce together except maybe to start out. Maters need way more nutes and they also need extra micro's and cal/mag.

Also if you are using a 2 or 3 part nutrient always add the micro first!
I turn off my pumps when I do anything to the nutes, mix well then turn the pumps back on.

Let me know if ya have anymore questions. I'm on facebook too which I check more frequently, Tri City Hydroponic Gardeners!

I plan on adding the plants when they are at least 6 inches at height.

I have the seeds in GH rapid rooter tray right now with a heat mat and a dome lid. Seems to be very slow to germinate compared to soil. I guess it's worth it from what I hear.

This is the tubing that Tracy (fintuckyfarms) is talking about ADS Tubing

It's called ADS tubing, and both Home Depot and Lowe's carry it. It comes in two styles, one has a bunch of holes like this one ASD with holes. But you want the one without the hoes like the first one I posted. They should both be about the same price. Though price may vary from area to another area, it should be about 7-8 bucks for a 10 foot long 4 inch wide tube. Make sure you get the 4 inch tube, they make it in a 3 inch wide as well. The end coupler is very easy to cut off with a hack saw. The end caps should run about 2 bucks each.

In store location may vary from store to store as well, but here in Lake Havasu you can find it in the same isle with the PVC, just on the other side of the isle. But you should be able to find it either near the PVC, or with gardening and irrigation supply's. It's used in landscaping to divert ground water so your yard doesn't flood. Print out the picture and description so if you don't see it you can ask them where it is. If your Home Depot and/or Lowe's really doesn't stock it on the shelf, they can order it for you. They will have it shipped to the store for free, and you just pick it up at the store when it gets there. Usually from 2 to 7 days.

I just noticed on Home Depot's website they make it in a 6 inch as well. Our store doesn't have 6 inch, so I never knew they made it that wide, but it's good to know they do.

Got the piping with the black, let's see how this goes.

Okay, so. I need to get more pipe tomorrow.

I spent $180 so far on pipe and some hose, I don't know if that's normal or what. I think I may need another pipe for plants, you space the holes 10 inches apart for tomatoes and peppers right? If so then I will need another pipe since I have 50 plants.

I also feel dumb asking this, but how big do I drill the hole for 3 inch pots? I assume a 3 inch hole will make it drop right in. I was thinking a 2.75 inch hole would be good.

I'm really glad you are all helping me on this, I know it may seem simple to all of you but I'm just a newbie :P

I don't want to mess up on these pipes.

You are doing great! It's important so you want to do it right, that's why I first came to this site and why I stay to encourage and learn more myself.

That is also the spacing I would use if you are using indeterminate tomatoes. Determinate and bush type tomatoes are smaller and you know before hand how tall/wide they will be growing. I would still prune the heck out of them for better management, less chance of disease and bugs and so you can actually find the maters:) There are lots of videos on youtube if this is new to you. If you have indeterminate maters, you might think about using a cable above them and using the yo-yo type tomato hangers to give them stability in the system. These are similuar to the commercial ones and have really good reviews. Somewhere on this site is some pictures of this type of system.

Unless you purchased the "heavy duty" type net pots with the extra large lip you will want to make the hole slightly smaller then the top of the net pot. Remember since the hole will be on a "curve" due to the round pipe they tend to sway with the wind but it dosen't hurt the plants and I have only had one fall out from very high wind. Tip: I saved the cut outs to help level the pipes since turned upside down they fit the pipe perfectly and a few of them on one end give the pipe that "just off bubble" angle.

Lets see it already....

I'm going to have to build some kind of support for the tomatoes to grow onto then.

I plan on digging in a 55 gallon barrel like you said, I bleached it and washed it out real good.

Something just came to mind though. How will I drain this if it's dug in? lol

I will post some pictures when it's closer to being ready.

I should buy a greenhouse for this, but I'm afraid that a hurricane would destroy it. Last year we got hit with Sandy pretty hard and their predicting another this year. (I'm in NJ)

To drain my barrels I just unplug the feed line at the pipe and turn on the pump. I will sometimes just put the smaller tubing inside of a hose and water the yard with the old nutes (gravity fed). Works great, just listen for when it starts sucking air and turn it off right away or catch it just before then the barrel will only have an inch or so of nutes in it and you can easily pick it up and clean it out. I usually cut about a 18"x18" square'ish hole in the side of the barrel so I can reach inside to make adjustment, clean or add frozen OJ or water jugs to help keep the nutes cool in hot weather.

I found some picts of the tomato yo yo thing. Lots of places carry them!

Darn it, it's going to storm for the rest week starting tomorrow. I hope I can have at least most of it done today.

Also, is it actually called a 'tomato yo-yo'? lol

Just google it but there are a few different ones out there that will do the same thing.

Tried to, the only one I found is $19.95 for 6

This person just used twine.... There are lots of options

Twine seems good. Got to get more pipe tomorrow, messed up on one of the cuts.

Update:

I got the main pipes connected, drilled the holes for the pots, and dug a 4ft hole for the 55 gallon barrel. Now I just need to connect to pump and drain.

I'm going to have a flow control valve connected to the drain to allow me to control the amount of water that stays inside the pipe.

The system don't look "pro" but I think it will work. Might be a day or two before I can do anything else because of storms. I was working in some rain today.

This winter I will be able to make a better one since I have an idea on how to do it now. Next time I don't think I will glue it, big mistake when I mess up.

Overall I got I believe 58 holes.

Ya, you always want to dry fit everything together first. How do you plan to run the pluming that a cock valve will be able to control the water level in the pipes. Weather the pump is running or not, the cock valve can only adjust the amount of water flowing through it (not control water height unless you open and close it manually every cycle). If it's in the fill side, water will still siphon back to the reservoir through it until the water level is low enough that it begins to suck in air. If it's in the overflow side, it will only restrict the water flowing back to the reservoir. Thus cause it to back up in the pipe while the pump is on, and possibility overfill. And when the pump is off it will still siphon back into the reservoir through the pump until it's low enough that it begins to suck in air. Water level in a hydroponic system is usually adjusted by the height of the overflow and flood line openings (cheep and easy), and the height of them is easily adjusted as your plants grow.

I see what you're saying. I guess I will need to figure out how to make an overflow pipe.

Searching google on how to do it, I know nothing about plumbing lol

You probably wont find anything useful Googling it. A overflow is simple, but depending on where you need/want place it in your system, and what materials you plan to use (vinyl tubing/PVC tubing etc.), the type of system your building (NFT, Flood & drain etc.) will determine the best way to do it. For instance if you want the line to go through a curved surface like the side of the tubing, that will present the problem of getting a flush fit without some type of curved rubber gasket or permanently gluing it in place. But if you place it in the end caps that have a straight wall, it's easy to get a flush fit, as well as good seal with just an o-ring.

If you have any pictures or drawings of the system your building, and where you want the fill and overflow to go, we can help easily you with it. Here is a link to a system I built using the same ADS tubing: Third system. You can see I went in through the end caps because that provided a flat surface. I didn't make the overflow adjustable in that system, but there are easy ways I could have. And you don't necessarily need to use the same bulkhead fittings I did. You can also use a male and female PVC adapter, and o-ring to make your own. In my experience I would suggest to make sure your overflow is at least twice the size as your fill line. Water goes in under pressure from the pump, but only goes out under gravity.

You can always compensate by regulating the water pressure from the pump a couple ways, and may need to anyway. But I've learned to just make sure the overflow can handle the volume in the first place. It saves a lot of headaches. So if your water fill line is 1/2 inch. I would use a overflow of 1 inch, or two 1/2 inch outlets.

Sorry about the glue thing, I forgot to tell you not to. I never glue mine so I can take it apart to clean and store it. If I have a drip I use a rubber band as a gasket.
To regulate the water level I just twist the end cap. So with the bulkhead on the edge and not in the center of the pipe, if I want the water level high, I put the drain hole at the top of the pipe. If I want it lower for overflow problems, I just twist it sideways till it stops overflowing. If I need to clean it or pull out some roots (tomatoes) I just pull it off. Simple solution and its worked great for two years. GPS is correct with the drain size, mine is roughly twice the size and I put a diverter on the pump line so it sprayed back into the nutes and aerated them more.
Raking my brain for more, but mine is still in storage and apparently I'm getting old. Plus it's finals week for the master gardeners program I am taking. I will try to make a how to sheet on my systems when I get more time and put them on my web page.
You should be able to save your system by leaving a couple of inches on the 90s and using couplers. Might not be pretty, but it will work. Might just need new end caps if ya glued those.

Here is a quick 5AM example of my system.

The two pipes by the two sides use T's. And the pipe for the drain is made for a smaller pipe, I believe 2 inches.

http://i.imgur.com/BNUSGpX.png

And yes, it's all glued sadly.

Damn, I just tested it with a hose. There is a slight bend in the middle of the pipes that's causing it to gather at one end. No matter how much I try to level it the system just won't work right.

I guess I went too cheap on the big pipe.

Is there a way to fix this so I don't lose $380?

OK thanks, that drawing helps me understand your layout. Your downward overflow (I assume that is the overflow) is unconventional in it's placement. But installing a overflow with that design and in that spot is still quite simple. I will need to take a few minuets to think about how I would make it easily adjustable, and get back with a drawing tomorrow. It wont be hard or expensive, still cheep and easy. I just need to make a few drawings to see what works best in my head.

One question though is where the line pointing down for the overflow is. Do you intend to use a "T" connector to do that? Or are you trying to install a flexible line there that would need to be sealed? My suggestion would be to use a "T" connector. From that you can easily adapted a flexible line if that is what you want to use, or a solid PVC line as well. Also using a "T" connector will give you a place to connect and make changes if you wish to in the future. Not to mention give a place to attach a fitting to a flush surface on a end-cap that is much easier to do.

Also I still don't know if you are going to run it a s a flood and drain, or NFT system. I'm assuming it will be a flood and drain system at this point. That makes a difference in the overflow height, as well as angle of the "T" connector for the overflow. I can come up with a plan to make it interchangeable from a NFT to a flood and drain design as well if that is needed. Making the flood and overflow lines adjustable gives that option as well.

Also I don't know if you are going to use baskets, or fill the tubes with growing media rather than just the baskets. That will make a difference because you will need a screen to hold the growing media back if the tubes are filled with growing media. Again, not hard to deal with, it just makes a big difference in the design and function.

Sorry I just saw this post after I already posted.
Do you have a picture of what you are talking about? I don't know if you are talking about bowing in the center from weight, or leaking from cut holes that aren't in a straight line. Bowing is easy to fix with the right support and leveling, and is cheep compared to using slightly more rigid PVC. But holes that were cut uneven cant be fixed without lowering the water level in the tubes so it doesn't rise above the lowest point of opening. Even 4 inch scheduled 40 PVC will bend under minimal weight, You need to build a suitable support system regardless what pipe you choose to use.

Why spend more money on scheduled 40 PVC, and it isn't even light proof yet. Costing you more money to light proof, and it still flexes under weight anyway. The only pipe that wont flex is steel, and that's unstable for hydroponics. Even the very expensive schedule 80 PVC will flex in 10 foot spans with no support in the middle.

I will be using this as NFT with net pots. The pipe is like bowing upwards.

Also, I was a bit off on the drain, the line should of been on right before the pipes in the center. Sorry about that, I only slept 2 hours or so. :p

Here is a picture, not the greatest picture but it will give you an idea. You can defiantly tell I had no idea what I was doing lol

If it comes down to it maybe it could be converted to a flood and drain if it's too bad?

Okay, I got it a bit more level. The valve is not going to work like you said, its deeper on one side and shallow on the other where the valve is.

I'll wait for your reply before I do anything else.

It is easy to convert, Just need a timer, some medium like pea gravel or perlite and a different drain. Guess I thought you were going for something closer to what I did. BUT I have learned that the more mistakes you make the more you learn so don't feel to bad. GPS Frontier is awesome and should be able to come up with something.

-see bottom post-

Good news, I got the system working with the help of my dad and grandfather.

I'm able to control the water level with the valve you seen in one of my other posts. That is great since I really didn't know where to start for the overflow pipe.

Since it's on grass I may need to adjust the level often, this winter I will build a compact version in a grow tent in my basement.

I will post some pictures most likely tomorrow.

Happy Dance!

Good to hear you have things leveled out. I have been out all day running errands, and didn't get home till about 9pm. So I haven't had time to come up with much for you yet.

Since you have everything glued together, it's basically imposable to make changes. I can't really tell from the pictures the angles where your tubes are bowing. But I think a lot of it may be due to the construction methods. Especially if they are bowing sideways, rather than downward. For a design like that, all the pieces would need to be cut exactly to the same size. and everything be measured and precisely installed. So all the spacing is exactly the same with any tube that it runs parallel with. If not, it will cause that kind of bowing. It would give the same effect as the tubes being all cute to different sizes, then the ones that were longer would begin to bow as they are compressed to fit in the same space as the shorter ones. An 1/8 inch off on one side can result in more than a inch or more off on the other side. Then forcing them together will bow the tubing to make it fit.

But now that it's all glued together the easiest and cheapest thing I can think of is to to to try and straighten them with 2x4's. fintuckeyfarms did something very similar to her first system. She ran a straight 2x4 underneath it and attached the tube to it. You can see it in the pictures she posted in this thread. You can use anything from zip ties to duct tape to strap the tubes to the 2x4's.

Fintuckeyfarms bowing was due to supporting only the ends of the tubes, rather than spacing it for the weight in the center of the tubes. So her bowing was downward. Sideways bowing needs side supports/splints. I made some drawings to show you what I was thinking. It probably won't look the prettiest, but it should be much cheaper than starting over.

With an NFT system the way you designed it, it will be very important to have all 4 tubes angled exactly the same. Unless you plan to have a separate water line for each of the tubes with plants, the water wont drain to all 4 evenly otherwise. Even if it is perfectly level, and you only have one water line to flow water through all 4 tubes. The tubes closest to the water line will get most of the water, simply because water will go downhill the first chance it gets.

You may consider a irrigation manifold like this one Orbit 4-Port NPT Irrigation Manifold with Filter, to split the one water line into 4 lines. You will need a couple extra adapters to get the vinyl tubing from the pump to connect to the threaded manifold, but their not expensive. That size line (1/4 inch) coming off of the manifold to the system should be fine for a NFT. You are just looking for a thin layer of water flowing by at the bottom of the tubes in a NFT system.

However you will need to adjust the water level higher in the tubes until the roots are long enough to reach the thin layer at the bottom of the tubes. I'm not sure if you have that worked out or not, and it would be nice to see some updated pictures first in case you made changes that would affect my ideas. I see your downspout is facing down, I can think of a simple adjustable overflow with the way you have that set up. But I will need to make a drawing to explain it clearly though. I don't have time to do so right now (it's 1 am), but I can do it tomorrow, and have it posted by late tomorrow evening if your still interested. I'm not sure what you have worked out so far.

PS.
I hate to say this, but another drawback to having everything glued together the way you do is that it will be imposable to get the root systems out, not to mention to clean and sanitize the inside for your next grow. You always want to think about how you will be able to do maintenance when building your systems. You want to be able to maintain your plants while they are growing. You don't want to need to kill your plants in order to fix an issue that may come up. It costs money to build them, so you'll want to use them over and over. So it's very important to think about maintenance. You saw the thread on the peas I grew, I attached a picture of the root mass that was inside. That picture doesn't even include the roots I cut out with a knife to get the baskets out.