Newbie here saying hello

[GpsFrontier]

Hello newhydro16,

How high should my lights be from the lettuce? I'm using the square colored leds. Currently have them about 10 inches from them.

led's aren't the best lighting to use in my opinion. Mainly for two reasons, first good quality LED's aren't cheap, and won't really save you much of anything in electrical costs. The break even point between higher equipment costs and lower electrical costs is generally 5-10 years. Personality I'm not going to wait 5-10 years to break even and start saving money. Second, the quality of the LED's for growing plants is all over the place. Not only are there thousand of manufactures making them, but the quality and wavelengths/spectrum vary greatly from one manufacture to another. Not only that but you can't tell good quality LED's from low quality ones by price either. The market is flooded with low quality LED's (mainly from china) that they charge high prices for. So you really have to do your homework on the specific lights you get.

But just like with Florescent lighting, you want LED's to be as close to the plants as possible without burning the plants. Again the quality and wavelengths output of the LED's lights are going to make a big difference in the amount of usable light the plants get.

PH has been around 6, but while I'm only on day six, I'm not seeing the growth that people claim they have in such a short time.

I don't know who your talking to who claim great results in 6 days, and I don't even know the progress of the plants your growing. So I cant say if they are growing slowly or normally. However first, six days isn't very long, second lettuce plants usually start off slowly. Their very tiny seeds. Third if I remember correctly you said you transplanted them, and it generally takes a about 4-7 days to get over transplant shock.

But if they are growing slowly there could be many reasons. Some of the typical reasons are not enough light, temperatures (both air and water temps), humidity levels, moisture levels to the roots, oxygen levels to the roots, nutrients, even pests and/or disease. I would have to know more about the details of your system and growing environment to see if there are any problems.

Would I be better with my pump which has two outlets, run the lines into one and just have one stone, currently have one line teed off in the tank, so there are three stones, but I'm wondering if these stones I got,(cheap, ebay) are not the best.

First without pictures I can't tell much. I gave you pictures of what it should look like in a previous post. Second. air stones are typically cheap, depending on size usually run from 1 to 3 bucks. However they can clog from time to time. I get them at Wal-mart for about $2, but you can get them anywhere they sell pet supply's.

Lastly, no mater how you run the lines or how many air stones you use, you can't make the pump be able to put out more air. Sure if you run both lines into one air stone you will see more air bubbles from that air stone, but only because your pumping more air through the air stone. Kind of like if you have two glasses each filled half way with water, then you pour the water from one glass into the other. Now you have one full glass. But not because you made more water, it's still the same amount of water, just in one glass instead of two.

If your air pump has two outlets, use both of them. Use one air stone for each line. Don't split the line to connect more air stones, that wont make more air bubbles. It just dilutes them because it has to split the air output to more stones. You'll notice in the pictures I posted earlier there are two air lines coming from the pump. Each air line is connected to one air stone. so there are two air stones in the bottom of the bucket and one twin output aquarium air pump for 30-60 gallon fish tanks supplying all the air.

when I mix new batch of nutes, do I still need to add the flora bloom, seeing as this is lettuce I'm trying to grow.

I'm' going to assume you' referring to the General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients. Not general Hydroponics Flora Nova series. Their two different nutrient lines. With the Flora series nutrients it has three parts Gro, Micro, And Bloom. Yes you need all three parts to work. You still need to use the Bloom, but not as much of it. For lettuce I would mix it 15 ml Gro, 10 ml micro, and 5 ml Bloom per gallon of water for full strength nutrients. (5 ml is 1 teaspoon, 15 ml is 3 teaspoons or 1 tablespoon).

[newhydro16]

Thanks again,
Ill get rid of the tee inside the tank, just run two stones one off each line.
Lights are blue/red, from ebay, 45 watts, one was $50.00, other $35.00, and yes looks like from China.
Ill try and be patient, they look healthy enough.
Thanks for the help, appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

[GpsFrontier]

Hello newhydro16,
I would use florescent lights myself. I don't know what your spacing is or how much coverage area your trying to get out of the two 45 watt LED lights. But each 45 watt light probably wont cover more than one sq foot each. Have a look at this video Low Watt LEDs vs T5 Grow Lights. For lettuce you'll need a minimum of about 35 watts of LED lighting per sq foot. However with florescent lighting you only need about 27 watts of light per sq foot. That's less wattage for florescent lighting. Four 4 foot T5 bulbs is enough to easily cover a 2x4 foot space and plenty to grow lettuce. each 4 foot T5 bulb is 54 watts x 4= 216 watts total. 216 watts divided by 8 sq ft =27 watts per sq foot.

With that said not all LED's are manufactured the same. Some will preform better, and others worse. To understand why you first need to understand wavelengths of light. Wavelengths of light are different than spectrum of light. Wavelengths are specific, and spectrum's are a range. Red and blue are spectrum's (ranges) of light that are made up of specific wavelengths. Think of it like a radio. FM radio is a range/spectrum of individual wavelengths. Radio stations broadcast on a specific wavelength, and there are a lot of individual specific wavelengths within the spectrum of FM radio. The same holds true for light. You can also think of it like shades of light. While Red is a color there are hundreds of shades of red. Red is the spectrum, but each specific shade of red is a wavelength within the spectrum.

You can't tell how many individual wavelengths of light there are in a specific color. You know you see red or blue, but you can't tell how many specific wavelengths are present in what your looking at, nor can the human eye tell how strong those wavelengths that are there are. So in other words while one red LED light may look just like another, they can be vastly different in actual light output. This is why you really have to research the manufacture of the LED lights to find out if not only do they know what they are doing in manufacturing them, but if they do growth rate, as well as growth quality testing comparisons. Otherwise it's just a crap shoot.

You should also know that each specific wavelength of light affects plant growth differently. Even though it's not commonly known, plants even use wavelengths from the green spectrum of light to build structure. Each individual wavelength of light is used differently by the plant, so they need a good range of wavelengths to grow properly. Many LED lights result in abnormal growth because they don't provide enough range of wavelengths. Again this is why you really need to research the manufactures of the LED lights.

P,S.
You'll be able to tell if your plants aren't getting enough light by looking at the growth. If their getting long and leggy, their not getting enough light. If their growing abnormally small and thin leaves their not getting enough light. If the stems aren't getting thicker and their continuing to grow tall like their going to fall over because the stems can't support the weight, their not getting enough light. Being able to tell if their getting enough range in the wavelengths of light is harder to tell since many of the symptoms can be a result of nutrient balance and/or pH as well.

[newhydro16]

Both are 45 watts each seem to cover my dwc more then enough.
All I can tell from description is 660 wave lengths, spectrum ratio, red blue = 2.25.1
I admit, no clue here.
Thanks for your help, and patience with me.
ph seems to be holding about6.0

[GpsFrontier]

Hello newhydro16,
LED's have a very short usable distance for plant photosynthesis. The light intensity plants need for photosynthesis is very different than humans need to see with. Sounds like a pretty narrow wavelength range with one specific wavelength (660 nm). The wavelength range for the red spectrum is from about 610 nm to 740 nm, and the blue spectrum ranges from about 425 nm to 520 nm. The green spectrum ranges from 520 nm to 565 nm.

What Wavelength Goes With a Color?
Electromagnetic spectrum

But as long as you already have them see what happens. Even if the LED's give good growth quality, two 45 watt lights won't be able to grow many plants. If you plan to grow much lettuce you'll need more coverage area and will be much cheaper using florescent lights. If you do get good growth quality from those LED's, they would be good for starting seedlings in a prorogation system. You wouldn't need more than 2 or 3 sq feet for a prorogation system to start seedlings. That way you can rotate new plants into the main system as you harvest. That not only shortens the time the plants need to grow in the main system by 2-4 weeks and makes it much more productive. But also separates the seedlings from the larger plants because the nutrient strength for seedlings is much lower than for larger plants. If you plan to have a continual supply of lettuce you'll want to start seedlings in a prorogation system and rotate plants anyway.

[newhydro16]

Thanks GPS,
sounds like a good idea

[shillamus]

I bought a big bag of black seeded simpson lettuce seeds from the hardware store.

They were easy to sprout in grow block on a tray and took root in severe hot weather in my outdoor system.. But the lettuce was really leafy

I want to find some real good iceberg or romaine seeds.

newbie.. GPS has said many times here.. the only way to learn is try
I am looking forward to my second year of growing

I believe hydropnic gardening will become more prevalent with climate change

[shillamus]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

Hello newhydro16,
LED's have a very short usable distance for plant photosynthesis. The light intensity plants need for photosynthesis is very different than humans need to see with. Sounds like a pretty narrow wavelength range with one specific wavelength (660 nm). The wavelength range for the red spectrum is from about 610 nm to 740 nm, and the blue spectrum ranges from about 425 nm to 520 nm. The green spectrum ranges from 520 nm to 565 nm.

What Wavelength Goes With a Color?
Electromagnetic spectrum

But as long as you already have them see what happens. Even if the LED's give good growth quality, two 45 watt lights won't be able to grow many plants. If you plan to grow much lettuce you'll need more coverage area and will be much cheaper using florescent lights. If you do get good growth quality from those LED's, they would be good for starting seedlings in a prorogation system. You wouldn't need more than 2 or 3 sq feet for a prorogation system to start seedlings. That way you can rotate new plants into the main system as you harvest. That not only shortens the time the plants need to grow in the main system by 2-4 weeks and makes it much more productive. But also separates the seedlings from the larger plants because the nutrient strength for seedlings is much lower than for larger plants. If you plan to have a continual supply of lettuce you'll want to start seedlings in a prorogation system and rotate plants anyway.

GPS.. I was curious.. I know there are 200W CFL's out there.. are they effective? Flourescents have a better spectrum?

[GpsFrontier]

Hello shillamus,
It depends on what your growing with it and how you have things set up. CFL's are the same thing as T5 florescent lights, except their more compact. hence the term CFL (compact florescent light). CFL's have the ballast in the base of the bulb, straight tube florescent lights have the ballast in the light fixture.

Weather their compact or straight tube, all florescent lights have the same issue. The usable light range is very short. The luman drop off rate goes way up beyond 2 feet from the bulb. In other words at 1 foot from the bulb your getting about 85% of the usable lumins/par to the plant foliage, at 2 feet your getting more like 60%, at 3 feet from the bulb your only getting about 25% of the lumans/par reaching the plant, at 4 your getting basically no usable light. Same goes for LED lighting.

While a 200 watt CFL will concentrate more lumans/par in one area, the coverage area is smaller. As an example four, 4 foot T5 bulbs equal 216 watts and will cover 8 sq feet of area. While a 200 watt CFL will only really cover about 4 sq feet. So the wattage is about the same but the coverage area is cut in half. You don't need 200 watts per 4 sq feet to grow lettuce. It would grow faster because of the higher light intensity. but not really worth all the extra electricity. You would be better off with the larger coverage area and growing more plants.

With that said fruiting plants take about twice as much light intensity (par/lumans) to support the fruit. While it is possible to grow fruiting plants with florescent lighting, it's not cost effective. Watt per watt your much better off using HID lighting to grow fruiting plants, especially large ones like tomatoes.

As for spectrum of florescent lighting, higher wattage doesn't mean better spectrum. It means higher light intensity (output). Unless the manufacture is selling their lights in the hydroponics industry they don't usually provide a wavelength (spectrum) chart for comparison. It's not that florescent bulbs sold in hydroponics shops are necessarily better than standard bulbs and that's why they provide the charts. Manufactures selling their florescent bulbs for household and shop lighting don't need a wavelength chart because people buying them for that reason aren't comparing wavelengths. They compere the color of the disable light by the K value. They typically range from 2400K to 6500K. The lower the K value the more of the red spectrum the light puts out, the higher the K value the more of the blue spectrum there is.