Brainstorming: Corn formula and best growing setup

[Luches]

Originally Posted by lfc-montana

I think I will avoid any more of this 'holier than thou' crap and go on my merry way..........

You can always do that, (fortunately there are no strings at all attached as they say). Frankly, I'm thinking of the same thing but for a very different reason. Actually it's not about being 'holier' (who the f. cares?), but about getting real tired of the same scenario that reproduces over and over again. With people who are either not happy with the ways the truth and the enlightenment is brought to them sometimes, - or always, but really ALWAYS want to argue for the sake of arguing, - instead of cooperating and collaborating.

[GpsFrontier]

A. The setup I have designed and build is indeed run by a 180 L (aprox. 40 gal.) reservoir, but the actual growing beds (all 2) could be flooded with a total of 4-5 gallons of nutrients as well. Simply because the basalt and river gravel are actually using some 85% of the available volume (which is an estimate - the finer the gravel the more of the actual volume to fill, it will occupy already). In fact, the roots will fill up even more space (gaps) over time...

I am not sure if you are talking about the one in the picture in this thread or another one you designed earlier. If that reservoir is 40 gallons the rest of the setup is larger than I think. But witch ever, I do know that the growing medium and roots take up space but as of yet have not done the testing to tell exactly how much for each type of growing medium, and I am not talking about just the ones you use. Their are a lot of different choices, each with their own pros and cons. I can only go by my own experience and what I know.

B. I did opt for a huge reservoir here to have more buffering for "long life" nutrient and stable PH. In fact one can run different strategies, either a smaller reservoir with frequent changes of nutrient, - or a larger reservoir with much longer autonomy and intervals of up to one month or 6 weeks. Depending on how much is toped up on a daily or 48h basis. Do you think that greenhouse setups with 1000, 2000 Liter or even bigger reservoirs, completely change it every 1-2 weeks ...? I seriously doubt it...

I know that a larger reservoir would have a longer life to it, my strawberry's had a 32 gallon reservoir and I let those run 3 weeks. But not by choice, just economics. There are to many things that can go wrong with a solution that I would rather change a smaller one more frequently than need to change a large one just because something went wrong. Also I know that larger greenhouses don't change the nutrients that often. First anyone with that kind of experience is not likely to be using this forum and if so very few and far between. Second they have the equipment to monitor there nutrients that most of us don't have the money for (big differences there).

Most people don't manufacture their dripers and haven't got the skills or even the tools to do whatever comes to their mind.

I have always been a handyman type person. I took auto shop in high school and have been working on my own/friends/moms cars ever sence, as well as worked at sears auto for 4 1/2 years doing breaks and front end work. I have also done most work around the house (though not professionally) like replacing all electrical outlets, fixing drywall, painting, replacing the kitchen sink and fixtures, setting poles for mailboxes, replacing light fixtures in the kitchen and dining room, tile work for the kitchen floor as well as the bathrooms that includes taking out the toilet and replacing it so the tile would go underneath instead of just cutting to go around it. I also have built cabinets for the bathroom and attached the old stone sink to the new cabinets.

What I am trying to say is that when faced with a problem I just fix it. Over the coarse of many years I cant imagen not knowing how because it just comes natural to me. If it's something I am not familiar with I will learn how, it's just in my nature to do so. I know not everyone is like that but I just cant understand that.

Compared to (hopefully making my point perfectly clear this time) a single grow bed E/F system, - the return with drip and recycle, and with most other systems is ALWAYS a technical issue - that can't be denied.

Naturally the design and more containers of any system can get more and more elaborate, there is no denying that. As far as that being a technical issue, I just cant see it that way. Sure it might take some trial and error to figure out but that's half the fun, if not where's the challenge.

And again, a well designed E/F system doesn't necessarily need a bigger amount of nutrient (or a bigger reservoir for instance). In case it's somewhat more, it can still be used for longer, before it needs to be replaced.

Yes if you have the equipment to monitor it and do so.

I sometimes have the impression that you don't really read what I am writing, but prefer anticipating things by yourself that I haven't said nor meant.

Sorry you feel that way. I personally feel you intentionally try to speak over my head. I am not a scientist or professor, In fact I haven't even completed high school. Missed it by 20 or 30 credits and just never completed adult school, I don't like mentioning that but it's true. I have always tried my best to understand. For me if someone does not understand what I am trying to say I will try another way until they do. You seem to be offended if they don't understand right away and that's OK, to each is there own.

If you are interested in saving nutrients (for either reason cited in this context), you should truly learn more about nutritional needs of plants and how to feed the most adequate formula. Well, simply because the more appropriate a nutrient composition is, the longer it keeps usable and "fresh".

This is something that I fully intend to do, I have no funds for any type of testing equipment though, nor do I have any funds for what is needed to make my own nutrients at this point. I intend to in the future, but that is not going to stop me from growing hydroponically and doing what I can at this point.

Frankly, I'm thinking of the same thing but for a very different reason. Actually it's not about being 'holier' (who the f. cares?), but about getting real tired of the same scenario that reproduces over and over again. With people who are either not happy with the ways the truth and the enlightenment is brought to them sometimes, - or always, but really ALWAYS want to argue for the sake of arguing, - instead of cooperating and collaborating.

Don't worry, because I apparently bring nothing to the table, this will be my last post in this thread. Happy Gardening!!!

[Luches]

The setup is now installed at it's "final destination".



As I became obviously interested in the fact how much nutrient would be needed to flood each growing bed, I took the opportunity to simply test it out. It is even much less as I guessed. Only (almost exactly) 1 gallon is needed to fill each bed until the level reaches the upper edge of the return outlet.

PS: I have certainly not been trying to talk over your head intentionally GPSFrontier! I don't know either how you may have come to such suspicion. Sometimes I am just thinking out loud in some kind of philosophical way, actually I am trying to be funny with that. If that isn't fitting in, or not hitting the actual target, just ignore these boob parts.

I am not offended by the fact that people do not understand what I am saying either. But it's true that it happens that I am getting frustrated and even upset by the fact that I am talking and explaining things - with the sole result of encountering some sort of non funded resistance. Resistance that often pops up reflexively without proper back up, nor based on facts and experience. People tend to get upset for a reason - and it's not about blaming someone for it (which is what most people do) but about finding out what (in terms of equal parts) has caused it and how to avoid it in the future. As long as one is just blaming the other (which happens most of the time) one puts him self on the save side, but doesn't learn anything from it. And as a consequence, it has to repeat itself over and over again.

Let me just tell How I (as in myself) use to handle it: In case I know what I am talking about and I am pretty sure, I am, either affirmative or I object (in case I don't agree or know better). If I don't know, I wether shut up or I ask the one who's supposed to - or is positive about knowing.

Last but not least for your reassurance: I am not academic nor a professor, nor anything of the sort either. I haven't even seen any high school nor college from the inside. I haven't had any home education either as my parents were extremely hard working business people. I am not sure if it's apparent to you, - but I am NOT a native writer in english language. It's not my secondary, but actually my fourth language - in order of appearance, skill-wise and in actual use as well. That is also a reason why I hardly imagine talking intentionally over somebody's head when dealing with native speakers.

This isn't about putting something (better) on the table, not about hurt feelings or being smarter or "holier", nor meaner, more educated or whatever - I guess it's only about different individual mindsets in use!

I am not asking for agreement about my opinions, I am just pointing out how and through what optics I see those things. Actually hoping for a better understanding. If it ends up not working out, I simply let go the whole hydroponic forum enchilada and just do my own crap. I wouldn't be as arrogant to say that I have bigger fish to fry, - but what I can say is that I have other fish to fry as well!

[GpsFrontier]

But it's true that it happens that I am getting frustrated and even upset by the fact that I am talking and explaining things - with the sole result of encountering some sort of non funded resistance. Resistance that often pops up reflexively without proper back up, nor based on facts and experience.

The fact is, you are the one without the facts. That's because you don't bother to ask any questions and just assume that your experiences are the only correct ones. You assume that my figures are off about my broccoli plants needing 20-25 gallons of nutrient solution to run as a flood and drain. The fact is you know nothing about the system. You assume that I would use the same growing medium that you would. You don't know the pump I am using or how much nutrient solution is needed in the reservoir to keep it from running dry. You don't know how often I check to see if I need to add more water to make up for evaporation. The fact is you know nothing except your experiences. I didn't tell you how much your system would require, that's because I don't know all the variables. You see in this country we like to ask questions first, its just arrogant not to do so. You should of asked how I came to that conclusion before assuming that I am wrong.

My figures were not meant to be exact figures. I may very well be off but most likely not more than by 5 gallons. So let say it would take 15 gallons to run. That is still more than twice the amount it is using now. THAT IS A FACT. I am not going to rebuild the system as a flood and drain and test it, to get an exact figure just to satisfy you. MY POINT IS STILL VALID.

F.Y.I. I worked it out today as to how much the nutrient cost me. I am not going to go through all the details so you will just need to believe me or not. I use the Flora Series 3 part nutrients, at about $25 a bottle and needing all 3 to make work. Using 10 ml per gal of each. It cost about $40 per 265 ready made gallons or about 1000 litters. That does not even include the shipping, because I live in a town where the nearest place to get it is over a 3 hr drive away. It being a liquid it's quit heavy 30+ pounds.

[Luches]

What are you talking about now - you must be really confused?!

I wasn't talking about your broccoli or your setup or whatever - at No time an I didn't care earlier and do not at this time. Why? Because this is supposed to be about CORN and in some way (well I hope so) about the setup and the follow-up of what I have been showing all along. And eventually about what ever comes up (from anyone) about the very same topic of CORN FORMULA AND BEST GROWING SETUP - of course... And in case I would be interested in your broccoli setup or whatever may be of interest that you could tell, it goes without saying that I would ask!

Yes, I have the facts but just because I have them for this very thing - if I wouldn't I would rather be lost in my part of the venture. Those growing containers only hold one gallon of nutrient each, after the media is filled in. This is a fact I could even prove with a real time video in case it would be required! And for most things I was talking about, there was- and is -no point in asking questions either. Because as a matter of facts, I am supposed to know those things as a presenter. Hence not asking questions from my side and in this very context, has strictly nothing to do with politeness, behavior or social competence. And certainly not with American lifestyle or whatever political correctness may be applied in your country in such case (btw. is this the WORLD WIDE WEB or is this America? If it's America, I am outa here for good!). Otherwise, if at some moment in time there are questions to ask or even permissions to get, I will behave like a good kid - simply trust me on this. I have traveled around the world (have even been in USA, Middle- and South America) and I am no exotic hill billy - so better save your argument and nerve for some real emergency of the kind.

Cheers,
Luches

[GpsFrontier]

Not confused at all

I wasn't talking about your broccoli or your setup or whatever - at No time an I didn't care earlier and do not at this time. Why? Because this is supposed to be about CORN and in some way (well I hope so)

You need to re read the post then. I was using the set up as an explanation as a comparison to what I meant between the drip system using less nutrients to run compared to a flood and drain system. It doesn't matter what is in the buckets, it could just as easily be corn as the other poster was wanting to use 5 gal buckets for.

Yes, I have the facts but just because I have them for this very thing - if I wouldn't I would rather be lost in my part of the venture. Those growing containers only hold one gallon of nutrient each, after the media is filled in. This is a fact I could even prove with a real time video in case it would be required!

No need because, well as you said "I didn't care earlier and do not at this time." I am sorry, I wasn't aware that your system in this post is the only one that we were allowed to talk about for growing corn. I thought it was about the best setups for growing corn as well. I guess you have already determined the best setup and that is it. So I guess there is no need for input from anyone else.

And for most things I was talking about, there was- and is -no point in asking questions either. Because as a matter of facts, I am supposed to know those things as a presenter.

Yes but do you. It is just here say from this end. You require proof from everyone else why are you exempt? I wouldn't make an issue of it except you do with almost every post.

has strictly nothing to do with politeness, behavior or social competence. And certainly not with American lifestyle or whatever political correctness may be applied in your country in such case (btw. is this the WORLD WIDE WEB or is this America? If it's America, I am outa here for good!).

Yes it is the world wide web that is very true, but you should ask yourself if that gives you a right to be rude to others. I guess I should not care how things come across to others either after all they probably don't live around here anyway. Just remember you usually get back what you dish out.

if at some moment in time there are questions to ask or even permissions to get, I will behave like a good kid - simply trust me on this.

I guess I will have to because I haven't seen it yet. I don't care where you have traveled or how long you have been there. No reason to care.

[Luches]

Firstly for the record: A E/F system doesn't necessary need much (or much more) nutrients as some drip systems or others. It may be of a personal interest to you and in your situation - BUT IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT with general value nor general interest. Because if the amount of nutrient in use is a matter, you can always design it in ways it doesn't use much. My design is literary random in matters of the amount of nutrient that is necessary. That is more than proof enough that it is possible to design others which use that little or even less. I am definitely done with this part - case closed!

OFF the record: I guess I give up on you here. As long as you are bending everything to your situation and the way you want to see things, I can't possibly get through to you - ever.

I've been telling you a lot about making nutrients earlier - and I could have get you through it until you were able to do it by yourself. If only you have wanted, - but you came up with your situation instead. It's your choice - and I am just citing an example of my intention to only provide help and support.

After that, I have been showing you a working heating system (you were actually looking for), but you didn't want to accept the fact that it is working as I explained. Until, until - I went over an over it again. It took me some work, time and patience indeed, but you finally accepted that it works.

Here in this thread again, I have provided and shared some input and information that isn't random and was in your own interest in the first place. I have calculated a formula that is based on plant residue analyses (yet not confirmed correct and working, - but probably a good approach). I've designed and put together a setup inspired on what I saw around by googling. This looks like it meets the requirements for growing corn. It uses low tech, a very small pump (with 5-6 watt consumption only) And most importantly, this very setup isn't using much nutrients to flood the growing beds. It should actually perfectly fit into your concept - but you seem to not consider or appreciate any of it.

Firstly you told us that you are interested in this topic but couldn't provide much, as you had no experience with Corn. But this was only valid until you found a way to put yourself back in the game with comparisons of your own setups. But that wasn't exactly necessary because this concerns your setup only and has no real general value so far. And that is were the confusion and the trouble started in the first place. I didn't see any sense in following and focussing on that part for a good reason. All attempts to make you understand- and get back to the part of the deal with general (not my own) interest, were truly futile. Because you can't ever let go of your thing. I also didn't come up with any personal matters or backgrounds in the first place, that was you - so don't tell me who cares about what, eventually - when I share mine as well.

And at the end you try to make me look like the bad boy here, because I loose my patience with the fact that you are never satisfied with what is brought in from my side. Instead you systematically put up resistance and eventually look for any bit that could serve as an argument. Thank you so much for that! It's the most nice appreciation you could ever provide! You blame an bite the hand that feeds you, - the first time you have overdone it with dinner!