Hydroponic at 45-50 degree celcious

[GpsFrontier]

why are you always so negative and serious, even if I try to make my points by trying to be funny

If you haven't noticed you are the only one laffing at what you think are jokes.

Aren't you anyways in opposition by principle and with anything I could possibly try to communicate? Be honest - it really doesn't matter to you what and how I put (write) it anyway, right!? You are just seeking for the snags and the pegs and even if there's any - you'll manage to make up some nevertheless. Does it make any difference or sense to even try to communicate differently? - I guess not!

All in your own head, so much wrong with that, I would need to write a book.

You didn't take the challenge to prove that what you claim is indeed possible and has general or partial consensus. Like it or not, admit it or not, your opposition is simply a point ahead.

You simply have not proven that all the people in this town who like to grow tomato's don't grow them during the summer months either, like it or not. You just claim they don't.

Opinions are opinions nothing else, they do not deserve any respect by default. Different people have different opinions and that's just a simple fact, they may vary in quality, are subjective and hence nothing that is suited to prematurely attribute a general value (as respect) to it.

This belief of yours is exactly why you don't deserve any respect, and why you don't get any back.

People indeed have- and take their rights of freedom of speech, and in democratic countries are officially entitled to any opinion as long as these are not overruled by other attributes (depending on law in vigor, jurisprudence, situation, culture and other specific conditions). As in rudeness is rudeness and not "an opinion" - hence overruled. As far as I am concerned, there is no respect by principle for the "opinions of anyone" (not even mine by others) but it goes buy meritocratic principles. If something true, confirmed with consensus, scientific proof or whatever it takes to make it credible, interesting, perhaps sensational, amazing - is put in an opinion, it might indeed deserve respect. Other more common things that are externalized as "opinions", even fancy things or some "platitudes" may only be noted, tolerated or considered - but not necessarily be respected in the proper sense. Things that are clearly born from ignorance, stupidity and stubbornness (or any other motivation that isn't constructive or to be respected) in any concerned observer's perspective on the other hand, - do not deserve any respect, not even consideration. Who doesn't see nor make the difference here, (the "prayer" from before might indeed help to understand what it is about) and can't understand that not any "opinion" deserves to be respected, but sometimes need to be overruled by the "thou shalt not show respect for any stupidity" clause, well - fill in whatever clause seems appropriate to overrule any such "opinions"

You DEMAND respect, and it's most unbecoming. The last two pages of this thread are simply because you don't want someone to plant a plant in this heat, and see if it grows for themselves.

[Luches]

Let's switch to the hard evidence and the facts then (something you actually asked for repeatedly, right?) - a good support for my opinion and reason why I don't recommend growing tomatoes (and strawberries) under temperatures in the ranges of 45-50° Celsius (113 -122 F) according to the thread starters question:

And yes not recommending (and why) that was and is all I was saying in that context!

The first source is directly from University of Arizona, your place right?
__________________________________________________ _____________
1. For tomatoes, day temperatures should be 21° -26° C (70° -79° F) and night temperatures around 16° -18.5° C (61° -65° F)
High temps in excess of 30° C to 35° C will cause many different types of damage to the plants, such as inhibition of growth and even death. The physiological nature of heat damage is thought to involve a denaturation of some protein component of plant cells. Fruit abortion may occur at these temperatures as well.

Source: The University of Arizona
hydroponictomatoes
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2. Common Tomato Disorders Under Desert Conditions:
Tomatoes grow best if temperatures range between 70 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, but can tolerate temperatures lower than 55° F and higher than 100° F for short periods. However, extended periods lower or higher than these temperatures abort the blossoms.

Source: University of Nevada
Common Tomato Disorders Under Desert Conditions
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3. When day temperatures exceed 85°F and night temperatures exceed 72°F, tomato flowers will abort. An important factor involved with temperature is time of exposure. The longer the plants are exposed to these high temperatures, the longer the condition will last and the more serious the effect on flowering.

Source: Auburn University AL
Tomato blossom drop
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4. Bloom drop, poor fruit set and/or cat-facing (deformed fruit) induced by high temperature (> 92°F) due to reduced pollination.
Source: Horticultural Sciences, Texas A&M University
cropguides tomato T A&M

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5. During unfavorable weather (night temperatures lower than 55°F, or day temperatures above 95°F with drying hot winds), tomatoes do not set and flowers drop. The problem usually disappears as the weather improves.

Source University of Illinois
unfavorable weather
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6. Prolonged periods of high temperatures above 90°F and wind during the day are associated with blossom drop.

Source: Oklahoma State University
Prolonged periods of high temperatures
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I believe my recommendations and statements, as well as the recommendation to think seasonal with tomatoes and strawberries is sufficiently backed up now even if the "burden of proof" has actually never existed on my side. Isn't it your turn now, to be fair play and deliver some credible and official proof, to justify your repeated and sustained denial and extended rhetoric objection against my recommendations?

[GpsFrontier]

I believe my recommendations and statements, as well as the recommendation to think seasonal with tomatoes and strawberries is sufficiently backed up now even if the "burden of proof" has actually never existed on my side. Isn't it your turn now, to be fair play and deliver some credible and official proof, to justify your repeated and sustained denial and extended rhetoric objection against my recommendations?

I am aware of the University of Arizona website, I have had it bookmarked for a long time. I also am well aware of the extensions services. That is nothing new to me, and I would trust all of the sources you posted. I am not now or ever did say any information from creditable sources are false, that was never my point. But nothing that any of those (or other) sources say (or may say) can discount anything I have said. I never said your plants will be perfect in 120F temps, I never said anything of the sort. I did however say you can grow them, and that people in my town do just that all the time. That is what you are asking me to prove, and you still have not disprove that fact.

The temp here in our town is in the upper 80's (30 C) and it is only late April. Next week it has been forecast to be in the low 90's (about 35 C). By the end of May, and early June the temp will be over 100 F daily (about 40 C). By mid July it will be to the 120 F mark daily (in the 50 C or better range). In 2 1/2 months it will be over 120 F daily until the end of August. Late July we start getting the monsoons, so the humidity is higher also.

Last weekend I was at both Lowe's and Home Depot looking for spinach plants (I never found). But while I was there, they both had displays of the Topsy Turvy tomato planters with live plants in them, even the Strawberry models. These things sell extremely well in this town, and everyone and there brother seem to be getting them. My point is, that people wouldn't be buying these, nor would the stores be wasting valuable shelf space on product's like this, as well as the live plants in there nursery's if people were not buying and growing them. They are not going to buy these plants right now if within 1 to 2 months they would have nothing to show for there efforts because the temp was too high. People grow these plants year after year here, they would not be spending there money if it was just a waist of time. I will have the manager at Lowe's call you tomorrow to verify what I say is true.

I never said that the conditions were prefect. I just say if that is what you have to work with, work with it (like we do here). My other point is that you can read all you want (even from creditable sources), but nothing can replace experience. What can it cost to plant a couple of these plants and see what happens for yourself (while you read up). Like I said "It's very simple plant a plant, see if it grows, if it doesn't under your conditions don't do it again. Or figure out what you can do to make the conditions better and try again. What's to prove?" If you had your way you would stop everyone in this town from even trying. Fortunately they don't know that Luches says not to even try. I guess they succeed simply because they don't know their not supposed to.

People are not allowed to speak if you don't agree with what they have to say, that is simply rude and disrespectful to others (something you are incapable of learning). Everybody in this forum (whatever is left) get that Luches does not recommend trying to grow tomato's and strawberry's in high heat, but nothing gives you the right to demand that they don't even try. You could have simply posted those links, quotes, and simply say this is why I wouldn't recommend it, that wouldn't have been disrespectful. But if you have not learned good social skills yet, I doubt you ever will.

[Luches]

You're clearly overdoing it more and more with every post.

Because that's one more rough distortion of yours, of what I was actually saying, intending and recommending (respectively what my actual and still valid disrecommendation was). The idea that I could talk someone into- or prevent anyone from trying anything at all, is either fear of being neglected and/or not listened to (some "Childhood Trauma"?) or a simple misconception of human nature of the idividual. Look at you, can ANYONE talk you into- or prevent you from trying ANYTHING?! I guess not

I have no doubt that anyone else can draw their own conclusion and take their very own decision about this very endeavour or any other. They are perfectly able to decide if it is worth the try, the effort and the risk (which may be huge indeed) - or not. Thinking or pretending otherwise, - again - I would call that clearly- if not naively -underestimating others.

[GpsFrontier]

The idea that I could talk someone into- or prevent anyone from trying anything at all, is either fear of being neglected and/or not listened to (some "Childhood Trauma"?) or a simple misconception of human nature of the idividual.

Ya I had lots of "Childhood Trauma" (NOT) that is just your attempt to place blame on others because you don't understand your lack of social skills. Theoretically no, you cant stop someone from trying, but that's defiantly your goal. Then when you don't feel that someone is taking your advice you get much more demanding until either they just and tell you what you want to hear or just give up or go away.

Look at you, can ANYONE talk you into- or prevent you from trying ANYTHING?! I guess not

It happened just last weekend when I was looking for the spinach. Due to our weather, and the fact I cant bring the setup inside to better control temp along with other factors, I chose not to grow spinach right now. If the Write Brothers listened to everyone we would never of had planes, much less a space program. Just going with the flow, no not my style.

I have no doubt that anyone else can draw their own conclusion and take their very own decision about this very endeavour or any other. They are perfectly able to decide if it is worth the try, the effort and the risk (which may be huge indeed) - or not.

I felt that a long time ago, and is all the more reason that if you felt that way, you were just trying to be disrespectful for the sake of it. Me, I will defend myself when called a lair (even in no uncertain terms), I don't just give up and go away like you are used to.

[Luches]

Haven't we all got our childhood traumata and don't we all lack social skills on occasion, or when others push us to the limits? Denial doesn't help here, it just makes it worse and makes the causal chain repeat itself over and over again until we accept us as what and who we truly are.

You don't need no "Luches" to discover your own limits and for instance I do not need any GPS to see my picture in the mirror

It's not the others, everyone is his/her worst enemy, even if it takes longer for some to realize that fact. Hence "personal conflicts" repeat themselves with various opponents until they are solved or dissolved. There have been and there will be others to defy you badly and confront you with yourself but me, - if only you'd believe and trust me on something for one single time...

[GpsFrontier]

Haven't we all got our childhood traumata and don't we all lack social skills on occasion,

To some point I would agree. But there is a big diffidence between occasionally and constantly. I can forgive occasionally, but not constantly.

Denial doesn't help here, it just makes it worse and makes the causal chain repeat itself over and over again until we accept us as what and who we truly are.

My thoughts exactly, when you come to terms with yourself and stop denying that you have a huge attitude that turns people off, perhaps you can recover. But I simply don't care if you ever do (not my job).

It's not the others, everyone is his/her worst enemy, even if it takes longer for some to realize that fact. Hence "personal conflicts" repeat themselves with various opponents until they are solved or dissolved

If you are trying to imply that I don't like myself and only taking it out on you, well that's simply the funnest thing you have said in a great while (thanks for the laugh). But it is still an insult, and exactly what I would expect from you.

if only you'd believe and trust me on something for one single time..

You are so arrogant, and you are so desperate for someone to believe you (even me) that you loose site of the points. It is not about who believes who, it is about finding information that applys to you, so you can use it for your situation. That is what helps people, and helps make this forum useful for those looking for it, not egos. What good is all the perfect information in the world if you just drive the potential users and contributors away. When you pick fights as often as you do, your bound to find people from time to time that won't back down from them. That's what your struggle is with me, no mater what you want to blame it on.