My First system

jamromhem · #1 08-24-2011, 08:42 AM

I am trying to figure out how anything can grow (even the plants some times) in my system lol.. If you smell anywhere in the system it just smeels like bleach lol.. I use more than a hospital does to do cleaning :P....

And the discoloring is centralized around where the nutrients are sprayed onto the medium... Though the color does drip off with excess water when I pick up the plant. I am not sure what is going on or what inexpensive methods I can take to try to get rid of everything other than the plants that are growing lol.. Regretfully the grow medium I am using makes it more obvious when something is happening. If I were using rockwool, or clay pellets, I probably wouldnt have noticed the coloring there..

I was thinking it could be damping off on one of my plants due to the way it is acting. One of the basil plants are getting browning in the stem and starting to lean a little. So I will see if I can convince that one to stay alive. If I can't the basil were not the plants I was focussing on to want to live, so I will not to be too upset.

GpsFrontier · #2 08-24-2011, 10:02 AM

I used a strong dose of bleach before to try and kill something growing in my systems as well, I did it as a last ditch effort to try and save some plants. if anyone remembers that was my last pepper plants. However in the end I think I did more harm than good. Even though the plants were still living, and the nutrient solution didn't have the bad smell anymore (but smelled like bleach). I believe the strong bleach wound up killing some of the roots. Then the dead (decaying) roots wound up feeding the pathogens even more. So in the long run, I think it just helped the pathogens by giving them plenty of food.

jamromhem · #3 08-24-2011, 01:22 PM

I will have to think about that and perhaps regulate my dosing a bit better.. I have been haphazardly putting bleach in as I felt it needed it rather than testing for the levels.

I am trying not to use H2O2 as a clenser for the simple fact that I am unfamiliar with it as a clenser, and also the chlorine levels in the tap water (I am still using tap water till I can manage the money for RO) are high and I don't have a setup to clear the chlorine yet. H2O2+chlorine (in a couple forms) makes salt water... I think that could have been part of what happened before.. I think the H2O2 was reacting with the chlorine still in my water and making the airstones work like a protine filter.

I am going to have to give this more thought.. I do need to get my larger res's set up to make measuring other things easier.

I will let you know what comes of everything as it progresses.. Right now the only plants affected are the basil plants, but even the loose polyester keeping the water from spraying out is showing some discolor. I am wondering if the bleach could be causing the discoloration of the polyester? I will have to run a test of it on full strength bleach to try to hurry the reaction if that is the case. There are concerns of using bleach on similar things because it will break down some of the protine strands in certain plastics, and the loose filaments of the polyester batting would probably be more vulnerable. I will let you know what comes from that test.

jamromhem · #4 08-24-2011, 11:49 PM

ok. Had the poly sitting in bleach for a little bit now, but I had another idea come to me while I was doing dishes.. I have crappy tap water... I found sand on my dishes in the dishwasher so the stains could very well be sediment collecting in the poly.. The nutrient is being sprayed onto the poly with a small bit of force, so I am thinking the poly could possibly be working as a sediment filter catching the dirt and crud.

I am going to leave the bleach on the poly over night to see if I notice anything else

jamromhem · #5 08-25-2011, 02:57 PM

I have a very important update on the water quality of the area i am in. And the results also lave me some room to think about what I am doing..

The water in the area has very high iron and manganese levels. I noticed some fallout while doing a PH test and it was small black bits. I called the local health depeartment to ask about a quality test on the water to find out about the most recent test, and they pushed me over to someone that said the fallout was most probably the iron and manganese, and that it would cause the staining of the polyester like I was describing. I am going to proceed with the hopes that is what is happening, and I will be looking for some filters as I go to try to make it not a problem in the future.

As an update.. One of the basil's survived the frying. the other ate it. (the one in the seedling tray died, and the one in the hydroponic system is growing and looking fine apart from the burnt leaves)

I know i might get a better plan t by starting a new seedling, but I want to see where that one goes. I am also currious about another plant. An amish paste that should probably be put down. It came out all strange looking and with only one leaf. The stem is wavy. It is just all sad looking. I am going to let it grow to see if it produces fruit or not. If it does I am taking bets on what it will taste like. Perhaps I will be in the market selling applamatoes (apple flavored tomatoes) lol..

GpsFrontier · #6 08-25-2011, 07:10 PM

That actually sounds like good news to me, because if that's the case a simple water filtration system should take care of it. And that the fungus growth you had before isn't coming back after all. Also if the coloring in the growing medium is precipitate particles I wouldn't start new seeds either. The precipitate particles wont be able to be absorbed by the plants roots anyway, and even if they were it would only be around a small portion of the root mass as the plants grow.

The fallout (precipitate) does however change the composition of your nutrient solution. Because as the mineral salts bond and solidify, they become "unusable" to the plants. So to keep your nutrient solution balanced you'll want to filter the extra mineral elements out before using it to make your nutrient solution.

P.S.
Good job finding out what the discoloration is. Most of the time the precipitate is white (from bonding with calcium), but other minerals precipitate as well. And considering the past problem, I never thought to ask if it was giving off a bad smell or not (I just assumed it was reaccuring), and just never accrued to me that it could be a precipitate.

jamromhem · #7 08-25-2011, 09:14 PM

I thought it outstanding news as well lol. I thought I mentioned previously it didnt have an odd smell, and just smelled like bleach. I might have forgot to add that bit to it. I just thought it odd that I saw no particle evidence in the res of new growth. I don't have any small particle filters in the res, just the large filters to prevent damage to the pumps. The res is thankfully nice and clear.

I now have the chlorine and PH balanced out where I want it. The PH is set around 6.6 because as the chlorine disipates into the air the acidity rises. That is just a theory I am working on to keep it from getting to acidic. (bleach is rating way too basic for any of my drops to measure) The bleach is atleast 8.6 on the PH scale if not much higher. After about 5 minutes a test vial goes from 6.6 to 6.0 exposed to air and light.

I am thinking about trying a carbon filter using some of the poly fill I got to use as the small particle filters.. It won't catch everything, but it will work.

On a side note. The poly fill is not very wicking in comparison to the finer fiber poly batting for quilts. I will be using the poly fill for the tomatoes as I am going to try them as a drip return system. My main concern with the poly fill is that I have to ensure I don't fill the nets completely with it, because it is hydrophobic and will collect a little water on the top before it lets the water drain through.

I took a ton of pics today to give some updates.

I will start with a spacial test I did just to see if it will work lol

It is oregano and cilantro in a simple plastic planter box. This one cost me about 4 dollars and has perfect sized holes to push a 1/2" pvc conduit bulkhead through and seals up perfectly.. It holds about 2" of water on the bottom that has not circulated in about a week and is still nice and clean. I am not sure why nothing has settled into it yet, but I am just going to count myself lucky. I am going to add some mutrients circulating through it later, but I have just been letting it do it's own thing and I am impressed with the results.

1st pic is the MANY oregano seeds that will most likely croud themselves out over time. They have about 90%+ sprout rate just sitting there in whatever moisture happened upon them. This was a VERY lazy germination on this system and I will try to keep it as lazy as I can to see how long the plants in it live with minimal help lol..

2 and 3 are some of the cilantro seeds that if you look close you can see some roots.

4 is of the planter just sitting there

5 is of the drain line sitting under the oregano side of the batting.

6 is the other side of the drain line that runs to the res.

7 is just a pic of the thermometer I use. The res stays about there now that I closed the window next to the system

8 is a pic of the inside of the res. It shows the UV filter. nice clear water. The white probe wire for the thermometer, the air stones (turned down for the pic) sitting on the bottom of the rest, and you might be able to see the pump in the back that runs the system.

9 Is a pic of the tomato plants for an update. They are pushing new leaves and getting ready for real growth. The blank one is a learning experience that I will have to make sure I take cuttings from the believe it or not if I like the tomatoes it makes. The seeds take forever to germinate, if I can even get them to. I had 2 seeds fail to germinate so far of that variety. After I get that plant going perhaps I will offer to send some rooted cuttings to some people here as a thank you lol.

10 is a pic of the "special" amish paste I mentioned before.

I guess I will have to post another of the Living Basil. I am surprised on how well it seems to be trying to bounce back. The only signs of damage it shows is that the seedling leaves are mostly burned away, but the non burnt portions of them are actually looking strong and the new leaves are growing larger.