Second system

[GpsFrontier]

This is the second of the four new systems that I have planed. I built this one for tomatoes. I thought that the bottle design that I had for my peppers would do nicely except that the bottles would be too small for the root system for large tomato plants. So I made some larger (4 liter) containers. I hope these will be large enough, but will see.

I had to modify the containers because I didn't think that the plastic they were made of would support the plants weight at the bottoms. I cut some plastic disks from an storage tote that I already had and glued it to the bottoms of the new bottles using Liquid Nails. It took much longer than I anticipated to harden (I probably used the wrong kind).

I then cut a hole in the center and inserted top and bottom P.V.C. connectors in the hole and tightened them down. make note of the bottom piece of the connector that threads into the top piece. In the picture you see threads to thread into another piece but should simply slip onto the P.V.C. tubing (I took the wrong picture). Then glued the connectors in place with polyurethane glue that is designed to bond with plastic to make it strong and waterproof.

I just made the base of the system using P.V.C., cutting it to the size I wanted dry fitting it all together and marking the connections with a marker. Then just gluing it all together with P.V.C. primer and glue, making sure to line up the marks so it would be straight. I didn't glue the containers to the P.V.C. tubing because I wanted to be able to disconnect them from the bottom part of the system for cleaning, trimming roots back or if any other problems would arise.

To keep the growing medium inside the containers and not going down the P.V.C., tubing I found an $2 heater filter (pictured) that I just cut the screening out of and lined the bottom of the containers with. Placed a few cleaned and sterilized rocks in top of it to keep it in place. Then just filled with growing medium and plants.

Oh also the nutrient reservoir I found at Walmart for $3.50, it is a simple 18 gallon storage container. I painted it black to block light to keep algae growth down and white to reflect light and Keep nutrient temp down, I also painted the containers the same way. I will be warping the P.V.C. with pipe insulation so that will light proof that part also as well as keep it from getting to hot or cold.

The return line back to the reservoir is not glued because I want to be able to adjust the water level by changing the height of the tube. It is also important to remember to drill a small hole in the top of the return tube to prevent air bubbles from letting it function properly. The plants are spaces 3 feet apart because tomato plants can get quite large.

Parts list:
containers (I found at the dollar store) $2.09 x4 $8.18
P.V.C. tubing $1.57 x2 $3.14
ten pack of P.V.C. "T" connectors $3
ten pack of P.V.C. "elbow" connectors $3
Liquid nails $1.74
polyurethane glue $4
P.V.C. primer and glue $5
storage container for reservoir $3.50
paint, 2 black and 2 white $. 99 x4 $4
Total about $36

I already had the connector to connect the PVC to the vinyl tubing but that is only about $.50, I also already had the pump but would be about $30.

[Harlequin]

How is that system for left to right strength on the joins at the bottom of each pot? From the photo it looks like there is a lot of weight and a pretty big lever all on that central pipe. When those tomatoes get big and say fall to one side in a strong wind will the pipe be able to handle the force?

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

How is that system for left to right strength on the joins at the bottom of each pot? From the photo it looks like there is a lot of weight and a pretty big lever all on that central pipe. When those tomatoes get big and say fall to one side in a strong wind will the pipe be able to handle the force?

In the earlier photos I showed how I reinforced the bottoms of the growing containers. I didn't show how I connected the connectors to them (I forgot to take pictures), although I did explain that I used a polyurethane two part epoxy glue to glue the connectors to the plastic containers. The attached picture is of the one I use most for things like this, but for this particular purpose I made sure it was specified that it bonds with plastic. I made about two layers of this glue to make the connection strong.

I cant say that the growing containers are perfect but I am sure that they will survive. I know that in the pictures they look like they are falling over, this is because there was no way of making sure they would be level in the completed system before I connected them. The holes unfortunately were slightly off center from the connectors, so when I tightened them down the glue was set and couldn't be redone.

As the plant grows there will be added weight, but I will be supporting the plants weight with a trellis that is not shown in these pictures because it is not built yet. It will be made from P.V.C. tubing that forms a box around the system that all the growing vines will be tied to, supporting the plant. I know from experience that a tomato plants will grow as high as it can climb. In Calif I had plants growing on a similar system that I am going to build for this one that was 8 ft tall (made from wood). Tomato plants will grow 3 ft taller than what is supporting it before starting to bend over and falling down. They were just about as tall as the garage roof, and I have no doubt they would have been higher if I built the trellis taller. In general they will grow about 3 feet taller than the trellis that supports it. My biggest concern is they may not have enough root space for the plants. If not next time I will use 5 gallon buckets and a drip system for the added root space.

I didn't glue the growing containers to the base system so I can always reuse the base and make new growing containers to connect to it in the future if need be. I have plans for a similar growing container but didn't think it would be large enough for these roots.

My plants are spaced 3 feet apart, the P.V.C. trellis will be about a ten foot square box around them, eight feet high. I will need 17 pices of 10 foot 1/2in tubing two ten packs each of "T's" and elbow connectors. This will run about $30. I wont glue them, so I can take it apart and use it for other things in the future. I will run string or whatever between all these P.V.C. tubes for to support the plants. In short, the weight of the tomatoes and vegetation will be supported by the trellis and not the system.

[Harlequin]

Fair enough - With support trellis boxing them it will come up nicely. Keen to see photos as they grow.

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

Fair enough - With support trellis boxing them it will come up nicely. Keen to see photos as they grow.

No problem, I plan to do just that. I will be building the trellis in about a week. I'll post the next set of pics then and keep updating as things go.

[GpsFrontier]

Well I have made some changes to this tomato plant system. While I was at the hardware store I was talking to someone there that informed me that even though the polyurethane/epoxy glue was superposed to bond to plastic, the type of plastic I was using probably will not bond well. Apparently the Tupperware plastic containers have a stain resister in it that resists stains and makes it hard for the glue to bond well. I decided it would be wise to rebuild the containers now while the plants are small rather than doing it when they were too big to do much about it.

I decided to go with 2 gallon paint buckets, they are twice the size in volume as what I had before. Because these buckets would be too big to be supported completely by the P.V.C tubing I placed bricks underneath them. The bricks support the weight of the buckets and keep them from toppling. The P.V.C. tubing is suspended in the air because it is connected to the buckets.

I am glad to have the extra root space because that was/is my biggest concern. The old containers were just over 4 litters (about 1 gallon) the new buckets are 2 gallons. Because the buckets are made of a thicker plastic than the Tupperware containers there was no need to reinforce the bottoms. I did make some spacers so the connectors will have a solid connection. I used 100% silicone to seal it all up with. I cut the tops off the P.V.C. connector that are inside the buckets (see pictures). This way when the water drains back, it drains as much out of the buckets as it can. I don't think that I mentioned that when I first posted this thread.

I got the buckets for $2.34 each, and about $6 for the 100% silicone. I made the spacers from spare plastic that was lying around. Then painted the buckets black to light proof them, then white again. So it cost me about $20 redo all 4. I would of liked to have started with these buckets in the first place because they were larger, but I didn't want them to wobble and break the tubing. I don't know why I hadn't thought of using the bricks to support there weight before, but live and learn I guess.

Also, I finally got around to building the trellis that will support the tomatoes and vines. It's not completely finished but I think it gives you an idea what I have in mind. I need 3 more 10 foot pices of tubing. I will cut one in half then connect the haves to the other two to make 2, 15 foot pices. Then conect them kitty corner to sturdy up the whole thing. The structure is 9ft square and 8ft tall, this is slightly smaller than I originally planed but think it will do nicely. You can see the green stretch tape strung across the tubing. This will be strung all around the structure to tie the vines and tomatoes to as well as provide additional support to the whole structure.

[Harlequin]

I seriously need to shop around for pvc connectors obviously... everywhere I have been here charge like $3 for a connector... And you got 10 for $3.

Love the look of the system.

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

I seriously need to shop around for pvc connectors obviously... everywhere I have been here charge like $3 for a connector... And you got 10 for $3.

Love the look of the system.

I am not sure where you live and if you have access to the same places, but I can tell you where I get them at. I live in Lake Havasu AZ it is a small town compared to Phoenix, I think we only have 40,000 or 50,000 people in the whole town. But we do have both Lowe's and a Home Depot, both places have just about the same prices on the 10 packs of the connectors and tubing. Though I like Lowe's better for the vinyl tubing and there connectors because they have a better selection of them.

Both stores have an isle dedicated to P.V.C. and connectors. You can get them individually or in 10 packs, with a little better price on the 10 packs. I constructed the trellis from 1/2 tubing and connectors. The 1/2 in tubing runs $1.17 for a 10 foot piece and as I mentioned the 10 packs of the connectors run about $3 for both the "T" and elbow connectors. The hydro system was built with 3/4 in tubing and connectors. The tubing was about $1.50 for a 10 foot piece and the 10 pack of the connectors are about $1 more than the 1/2 in connectors.

I also often get things at ACE Hardware when I only need a few things because it is an 28 mile round trip to Lowe's and Home Depot but ACE is only about 3 miles round trip. But ACE is more expensive and in some cases can be as much as twice the price. We also have some local stores like Havasu hardware that I use sometimes. That is where I was informed the Tupperware type of plastic has the stain resistors that don't bond well with just about anything.

Last time I was at Home Depot I was talking to an employee about something else but we were in the electrical isle and he was telling me the electrical conduit piping fits the same as the regular P.V.C.. It's just not designed to hold water pressure like the P.V.C. is, but it will work just fine because these Hydroponic systems don't require pressure. Maybe just a few psi but certainly not 90 psi. I like these also because the 1/2 in 10 foot tubing was $1.18, only a penny more than the regular P.V.C. and they are light proof. The P.V.C. is not exactly light proof. I will be wrapping pipe insulation around the tubing to protect from the cold this winter, so being light proof is not a big issue but a plus.

[GGM]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

I seriously need to shop around for pvc connectors obviously... everywhere I have been here charge like $3 for a connector... And you got 10 for $3.

Love the look of the system.

They do vary in price, high pressure fittings are obviously more expensive but $3 dollars for a tee or a elbow? I live in a tiny country where it doesnt get much rain at all and pvc fittings are harder to come by, but here they are about US 50c for a tee/elbow so surely you are looking at some sort of special fittings.

[GGM]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

I am not sure where you live and if you have access to the same places, but I can tell you where I get them at. I live in Lake Havasu AZ it is a small town compared to Phoenix, I think we only have 40,000 or 50,000 people in the whole town. But we do have both Lowe's and a Home Depot, both places have just about the same prices on the 10 packs of the connectors and tubing. Though I like Lowe's better for the vinyl tubing and there connectors because they have a better selection of them.

Both stores have an isle dedicated to P.V.C. and connectors. You can get them individually or in 10 packs, with a little better price on the 10 packs. I constructed the trellis from 1/2 tubing and connectors. The 1/2 in tubing runs $1.17 for a 10 foot piece and as I mentioned the 10 packs of the connectors run about $3 for both the "T" and elbow connectors. The hydro system was built with 3/4 in tubing and connectors. The tubing was about $1.50 for a 10 foot piece and the 10 pack of the connectors are about $1 more than the 1/2 in connectors.

I also often get things at ACE Hardware when I only need a few things because it is an 28 mile round trip to Lowe's and Home Depot but ACE is only about 3 miles round trip. But ACE is more expensive and in some cases can be as much as twice the price. We also have some local stores like Havasu hardware that I use sometimes. That is where I was informed the Tupperware type of plastic has the stain resistors that don't bond well with just about anything.

Last time I was at Home Depot I was talking to an employee about something else but we were in the electrical isle and he was telling me the electrical conduit piping fits the same as the regular P.V.C.. It's just not designed to hold water pressure like the P.V.C. is, but it will work just fine because these Hydroponic systems don't require pressure. Maybe just a few psi but certainly not 90 psi. I like these also because the 1/2 in 10 foot tubing was $1.18, only a penny more than the regular P.V.C. and they are light proof. The P.V.C. is not exactly light proof. I will be wrapping pipe insulation around the tubing to protect from the cold this winter, so being light proof is not a big issue but a plus.

Yeah I use electrical conduit piping as you can't buy water PVC piping less that 50mm here except the push fit type piping. I also use some irrigation fittings and use PVC glue to glue them to couples, especially valves where a PVC valve may cost $5 dollars and a irrigation one here at least (farm co-ops) costs 30c.

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by GGM

Yeah I use electrical conduit piping as you can't buy water PVC piping less that 50mm here except the push fit type piping. I also use some irrigation fittings and use PVC glue to glue them to couples, especially valves where a PVC valve may cost $5 dollars and a irrigation one here at least (farm co-ops) costs 30c.

If you can find them, the regular P.V.C. fittings should fit for the same size electrical conduit piping, so I am told (I haven't done it yet).

[GGM]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

If you can find them, the regular P.V.C. fittings should fit for the same size electrical conduit piping, so I am told (I haven't done it yet).

yeah they do, its weird they sell them here but no proper pvc pipes for them, I think its because everyone uses 20 and 25mm electrical conduit piping for air conditioner run offs (lots of high story appartments here) and so they sell pvc fittings for that reason.

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by GGM

yeah they do, its weird they sell them here but no proper pvc pipes for them, I think its because everyone uses 20 and 25mm electrical conduit piping for air conditioner run offs (lots of high story appartments here) and so they sell pvc fittings for that reason.

I see you must live in a large city. I used to live in Hacienda Heights (on the outskirts of Los Angeles CA) but there were a lot of regular homes and 2 story apartment buildings with landscaping there, but no tall apartment buildings. So Home Depot and Lowe's always had a good selection of the P.V.C.. Were you able to find the 10 packs like I get for about the price I get them? If not, it must be because of the laws of "supply and demand". Also I would expect in city's like that space is at a premium, driving prices up. I haven't even thought about it but it might be possible to order online from Home depot and Lowe's website directly. Depending on shipping costs it might still be cheaper.

P.S. I was looking for 6 inch P.V.C. end caps online because the ones here in town I can only get at a pluming supply whorehouse and are $11. I needed 4 of them and that would be just too much. So I looked online and found a number of places that sold P.V.C supply's even custom made stuff. They had the standard fittings also, though I don't remember the prices because it wasn't what I was looking for. But that might be another avenue to look at, I can look some up if you need. Also there might be some pluming supply places that sell to the public near you, if you haven't tried them yet.

[Harlequin]

I live in Australia and for some reason conduit and joints are really really expensive. I've done some more searching and I can get joints for about 70c each here for water ones. Electrical ones are more expensive.

I really don't know why they are so expensive.... A 4m length of 25mm conduit is about $9.

I also live in a major city of about 4 million people so its not like it needs to be shipped miles.... Going to have to do some more searching.... I like how the conduit frames look but I can't justify $40 on a small frame...

The only thing I can think of is buildings are going up like mushrooms here at the moment and everyone is really really busy so demand is high and they can get away with charging what they like.

[Harlequin]

So that you can all feel my pain....

25mm : reticonline, Crystal Waters Irrigation

Ps. 1 aud is approx 95 us cents so close enough to 1 to 1

[GGM]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

I live in Australia and for some reason conduit and joints are really really expensive. I've done some more searching and I can get joints for about 70c each here for water ones. Electrical ones are more expensive.

I really don't know why they are so expensive.... A 4m length of 25mm conduit is about $9.

I also live in a major city of about 4 million people so its not like it needs to be shipped miles.... Going to have to do some more searching.... I like how the conduit frames look but I can't justify $40 on a small frame...

The only thing I can think of is buildings are going up like mushrooms here at the moment and everyone is really really busy so demand is high and they can get away with charging what they like.

yeah that is expensive here in Malta they are about 1.10 euro or 1.90 aussie dollars for 3 metres, surely large hardware stores have them cheaper.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by GGM

yeah that is expensive here in Malta they are about 1.10 euro or 1.90 aussie dollars for 3 metres, surely large hardware stores have them cheaper.

That is the price from the largest hardware store - Bunnings Warehouse - Lowest prices are just the beginning - Bunnings Warehouse

Bunnings have a stranglehold on the market here.

[GGM]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

So that you can all feel my pain....

25mm : reticonline, Crystal Waters Irrigation

Ps. 1 aud is approx 95 us cents so close enough to 1 to 1

They are not what you want, you want things like these PVC Cat 13 90º Elbow 25mm : PVC Pipe Fittings : Wet Earth

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

So that you can all feel my pain....

25mm : reticonline, Crystal Waters Irrigation

Ps. 1 aud is approx 95 us cents so close enough to 1 to 1

Yes those prices seem outrageous to me though I didn't see the ones that I actually use. Like the ones in the link from GGM. This wont work for building the hydro system but it may help you for the trellis (box frame). When I lived in California and grew tomato's in the ground I built a similar trellis using 2x4's. I cut them long ways 3 times so I had 4 long pieces, then cut each of those in half long ways again. So now I had 8, 8 foot poles. I then stuck some in the ground about 2 feet so there were sticking up out of the ground 6 feet. Then tied the rest of the poles to them horizontally to build a similar frame. You might be able to do something like that. It took a long time to cut the wood because all I had was a jig saw but it got the job done. I don't know if you can stick them in the ground but you should be able to tie, screw or nail them together so it can just sit on the ground similar to what I built.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

Yes those prices seem outrageous to me though I didn't see the ones that I actually use. Like the ones in the link from GGM. This wont work for building the hydro system but it may help you for the trellis (box frame). When I lived in California and grew tomato's in the ground I built a similar trellis using 2x4's. I cut them long ways 3 times so I had 4 long pieces, then cut each of those in half long ways again. So now I had 8, 8 foot poles. I then stuck some in the ground about 2 feet so there were sticking up out of the ground 6 feet. Then tied the rest of the poles to them horizontally to build a similar frame. You might be able to do something like that. It took a long time to cut the wood because all I had was a jig saw but it got the job done. I don't know if you can stick them in the ground but you should be able to tie, screw or nail them together so it can just sit on the ground similar to what I built.

I have built myself a crappy frame. I can't stick them in the ground because they are sitting on my deck - it was more aesthetics more than anyhting that made the pvc pipe look good. I even bought green paint in preparation. Oh well.

All I have done atm is drill 2 holes in a thick peice of cypress and hammer in long steel rods.... It works but its ugly.