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NFT Lettuce


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  #21  
Old 01-25-2010, 07:03 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Yes i am talking feet not inches thats why i put one ' and not two.
I thought so, but it's so easy to simply hit the wrong key on a keyboard, and it's a big difference. A 4 inch trough would be fine for smaller lettuce plants. Also I thought 2 feet deep was quite deep already, and you mentioned possibility wanting to make it even deeper. So I just wanted to clarify it.

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  #22  
Old 01-25-2010, 07:31 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default lettuce/root edible plant

I was at wally world and they dont have kids pools this time of year. But as soon as i can find a kiddy pool i'm going to float some leafy lettuce type plants and carrats radishes any thing with a edible root.

I'm thinking i will just cut out holes for the plants that will be on styrafoam in net pots. then place a black poly sheet over the whole thing and cut out the holes for the net pots with a x in the plastic so when i shove in the net pot it will tuck the fold of the poly into the foam with it so that the plant cant slide under the palstic or move around. pus it blocks out the light to the roots and water. toss in a really small pond pump i have for circualtiona and a place to fill it and test the solution.

I like the floating idea becuase if you water by hand unless the pool runs out of water the plant is always in the solution at the correct depth. I like the idea of carrot or beat hanging down under the net pot.

I think this would make a great strawberry grow as well with florecent bulbs the lenght of the pool.

about the previuos post/roots dont rot when there wet all the time unless the water is to warm and there is no oxygen? root rot is just that you have created a hydro composter. cool the water add some air stones and those roots no mater how they come into conact with soltuion will be white and thrive.

Years ago i bought a heater core for a chevy pick up. its all aluminum and plastic i put in just after the pump and placed a big computer styel cooling fan on it. I had a dayton air temp control that switched on and off a realy. i bent the thermometer down to touch the water in the resivoier and hooked the fan to its relay switch which i think was points contact like a fish heater.

i could know 5 to 15 degrrees off the solution depending on room tempeture. Now i build chillers out of wall shakers. but where i live just having the nutes on the concrete floor sucks enough heat out of them unless it summer then i have afreezer with some plastic rectangle planters i bought that make a very large ice cube that last all day dropped in a 5 gallon bucket for those really hot august days for a week or two.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I think this would make a great strawberry grow as well with florecent bulbs the lenght of the pool.
Yes, I've seen strawberry's growing in a water culture system and they looked healthy. I have always liked the floating raft water culture systems. Though I have a different system for growing strawberry's that I really want to get running as soon as I have the money.
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about the previuos post/roots dont rot when there wet all the time unless the water is to warm and there is no oxygen? root rot is just that you have created a hydro composter. cool the water add some air stones and those roots no mater how they come into conact with soltuion will be white and thrive
That's interesting, I know about the temp being to warm (I dealt with that before), and I understand why the need for the air stones in standing water. Although, I also understand that some plants like well drained soil and others are not so finicky. I guess for plants that like well drained soil you would suggest adding extra air stones to get more air to the roots (and extra or larger air pump of coarse)? I would never consider a water culture system for a root crop, but it would be interesting to see how it works out. It would be even more interesting if you could see the crop growing underwater, kind of like hybrid humans/aliens in the large test tubes in the sci fi flicks. I know that light needs to be blocked, but it would be cool if once and a while you could lift the skirt and take a peek.
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Years ago i bought a heater core for a chevy pick up. its all aluminum and plastic i put in just after the pump and placed a big computer styel cooling fan on it. I had a dayton air temp control that switched on and off a realy. i bent the thermometer down to touch the water in the resivoier and hooked the fan to its relay switch which i think was points contact like a fish heater.
Sounds similar to an idea that I have for a one room air conditioner. Using just the heater core or small/medium radiator, strapping a fan to it. Then filling an ice chest with ice water and pumping the ice water through the radiator/heater core. I don't think your setup would work for me because the air temp outside reaches 120+ in the summer here, but I would be interested in seeing how you had that system set up in case there are aspects I can use, and it might give me a idea or two.
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Now i build chillers out of wall shakers.
I tried looking up "wall shakers" but all I seem to get is furniture. I would be interested in seeing how you build these also.
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:17 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default root edibles

i always though the root plants would not work for some reason but deep culture works and i have done that for years and my carrots and radishes are very happy in clay pellets. Since i run a drip feed system and it runs over the root it virtually under water?

I bought a great potatoe a week or so ago at the store. its running under solution right now. i am going to float it in a bucket as soon as it has roots.

one time i dropped a seed in nute tank that had a 400 hid over it and it developed roots leaves etc and pulled it out and grew it. i should try this again and see how easy this might be again.
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Amigatec Amigatec is offline
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You can small addon heater with a fan already mounted, the fan 12V. I have installed these in equipment before. It's a heater core in a case with a fan on it.
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:42 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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i always though the root plants would not work for some reason but deep culture works and i have done that for years and my carrots and radishes are very happy in clay pellets.
So it's not actually a water culture system, because the roots are in a growing medium and not completely suspended in the nutrient solution? If it's like the systems in the videos, they appear to be a combination system, and not a true water culture system. So the crop part of the root system is actually above the water level, with a drip system on top.
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  #27  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:17 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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1. the wet feet theory is a common misconception when transferring knowledge from soil to hydroponics. The wetness is anyway not the problem but the oxygenation the wetness prevents. Some plants roots are simply lacking oxygen in too wet soil or media because of there fine roots. The humidity is not the actual reason, but the cause for the lack of oxygen. As soon as there is enough oxygenation, the roots of almost any plants thrive well and stay healthy when completely edit: emerged submerged in water.

2. Temperatures of nutrients have priority before oxygenation. Because the cooler the water the more oxygen can/will be dissolved in water. 24°C is ideal and seen as the best compromise between ambient temperature and dissolved oxygen. If your nutrient solution is too warm, there is no way to oxygenate it further than it can be dissolved in the actual temperature!

3. Carrots (and other root vegetables) grow well in DEEP WATER, but carrots have a tendency to crack and split in deep water culture. Some varieties tend less to split - research has been made to determine suitable varieties that split less and has shown that there are notable differences between varieties.

4. Potatoes definitely grow best in aeroponic systems, where upper parts are sprayed (sprinklers are good enough) and lower roots are immersed in water. In Brazil such technique is commonly used. The setup is similar to concrete pools (covered with styrofaom), but there is about 1 foot of air space between styrofoam and water level. This zone is the actual growing zone which is sprayed permanently or every 15-20 mins.

5. When building a DWC setup from concrete or bricks, building it a bit deeper than 1' can be of an advantage, especially if this part is underground. Half a foot deeper may make the difference of a few degree lower temperatures and prevent you from using "complicated" perhaps delicate and energy consuming, devices.

6. In both DWC and NFT, recycling the nutrients to and through a supplementary underground reservoir is always a good idea. Constant flowing, and dropping from a certain hight may oxygenate the solution good enough. People running such- or other recycling DWC systems, often report very good results.

PS: I am running recycling DWC based nurseries lately (with the lettuce cups filled with a perlite/vermiculite mix as shown before) and I am amazed with the results.

Last edited by Luches; 01-26-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-26-2010, 11:19 AM
txice txice is offline
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A point for clarification to avoid any possible confusion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luches View Post
1. the wet feet theory is a common misconception when transferring knowledge from soil to hydroponics. The wetness is anyway not the problem but the oxygenation the wetness prevents. Some plants roots are simply lacking oxygen in too wet soil or media because of there fine roots. The humidity is not the actual reason, but the cause for the lack of oxygen. As soon as there is enough oxygenation, the roots of almost any plants thrive well and stay healthy when completely emerged in water.
I think you mean submerged? You are referring to situation(s) where the roots can thrive when completely under water given enough DO correct? I can't imagine where oxygen would be an issue for roots out of water unless the grow system was somehow air tight or something.
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  #29  
Old 01-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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Originally Posted by txice View Post
A point for clarification to avoid any possible confusion...
I think you mean submerged? You are referring to situation(s) where the roots can thrive when completely under water given enough DO correct? I can't imagine where oxygen would be an issue for roots out of water unless the grow system was somehow air tight or something.
As you may have noticed, I am not a native writer in english language. Yes I meant submerged.
What I wrote is not about what you can hardly imagine, but about wet soil that is more compact and hence does not allow the same amount of root oxygenation. If we talk about wet feet we talk about water that remains for longer in soil and has poor oxygen content, and at the same time prevents soil to "breathe" as it is the case when soil is fluffy, moist but not completely saturated with water. And as we know, some plant's roots deal better with "wet feet" than others - still, the actual problem is not the water, but the lack of oxygenation for some plants' root types under water saturated soil conditions. This issue is actually well known and not something I've invented for the occasion

The other part is that any roots that are (completely) submerged in water, can only uptake oxygen which is dissolved in that water, - oxygen molecules that are present in H2O to be precise. To put it in simple words: the warmer the water, the less molecules can/will be dissolved in that water, no matter how much oxygen (by air pump/stone, mechanical means, etc.) you try to get in.

Point is, that we deal with two completely different environments and cannot transfer insight from one domain to another.

Last edited by Luches; 01-26-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-26-2010, 12:35 PM
txice txice is offline
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Yes I noticed...and I also fully understand the oxygen concept. Like I said, was just looking for clarification on your word choice so I was clear on the point you were trying to make. Thanks for clarifying.
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  #31  
Old 01-26-2010, 02:41 PM
OChydro OChydro is offline
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Default NFT Lettuce

I have 5 plants in my 1 in. gully right now. The weather was been cold and we had over 8 in. of rain at the house. The butter lettuce is hanging on a growing just a bit. I'll try to put some images up but they are pretty pathetic for the time being. I am in So Cal and all of my hydro is outside.

The lettuce I bought from the nursery, rinsed off the soil as best I could is doing well in the aeroponic unit. In the future I will stick with this technique in the late fall and winter. I think the NFT lettuce will excel when the weather warms.

On an interesting note, I harvest my lettuce but don't chop off the head to low, (butter and romaine), and then get a complete second head very quickly since the root structure is already there.
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  #32  
Old 01-26-2010, 03:21 PM
smurf smurf is offline
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yea, i am going to be out side, but i am waiting for this large storm system to move outa here. also in cali.
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  #33  
Old 01-26-2010, 03:25 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default deep water

thats all very good info.

We were just thinking about a 30 gallon garbage can with the lid flipped upside down and a hole drilled for a potato/tomato plant.

So your saying the potato itself should not be in the nutrient? or it should be and there should be a space of about a foot betwwen where the potatoes grow and the root extending down to them.

I ask becuase i have never grown hydro potato's yet. they are so inexpensive ive always just bought them.

i do have some of those fogger misters i could drop in and go aeroponic?

I really had this idea i would be able to just lift the lid and cut off a potato for dinner with my scissors and the plant would just be happy and continue to grow more.

this is a great topic, hydro potatoes could really help my food production.
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  #34  
Old 01-26-2010, 03:49 PM
smurf smurf is offline
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in epcot, they grow them. But they have large pots of dirt for the potatoes to grow in. So the plant is in a hydro system, and when they find a tuber bud start it goes in the dirt.
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  #35  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:05 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
in epcot, they grow them. But they have large pots of dirt for the potatoes to grow in. So the plant is in a hydro system, and when they find a tuber bud start it goes in the dirt.
So they have a hydro plant with buckets of dirt around it, and the root with the spud growing stretched over and placed in the dirt?

I to never really considerd growing things like potatoes, carrots or onions (other than green onions) just because they are so inexpensive at the store. Root vegetables seem to keep well as long as they are kept cold and dry, so they seem to travel well and the quality at the store isn't bad.
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  #36  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:12 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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On an interesting note, I harvest my lettuce but don't chop off the head to low, (butter and romaine), and then get a complete second head very quickly since the root structure is already there.
This is very interesting indeed. I have never grown lettuce as of yet, but always thought you would only get one head per plant. The butter lettuce I get at the store always has the root ball with it. The Romain is cut at the bottom and the base is about 2 to 3 inched where it was cut. Maybe the Romain plant gets much bigger than I figured to be able to make room for more heads.
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  #37  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:35 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by Luches View Post
As you may have noticed, I am not a native writer in english language. Yes I meant submerged.
What I wrote is not about what you can hardly imagine
What it is about is writing what you mean, and taking offense to others if you cant. These are two completely different meanings that mean the exact opposite things. That changes the entire concept of what you were trying to say. Therefore txice was only trying to imagine/picture what you actually said, not what you meant.

eˇmerge (-műrj)
intr.v. eˇmerged, eˇmergˇing, eˇmergˇes
1. To rise from or as if from immersion: Sea mammals must emerge periodically to breathe.
2. To come forth from obscurity: new leaders who may emerge.
3. To become evident: The truth emerged at the inquest.
4. To come into existence. See Synonyms at appear.

subˇmerged (sb-műrjd)

adj.
1. Botany Growing or remaining under water: submerged leaves.
2. Living in poverty or misery.
3. Having been hidden.
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  #38  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:17 AM
OChydro OChydro is offline
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Default lettuce

I think the bigger all lettuce grows the thicker and tougher the leaves become. Pickem small for better texture, edibility and esthetics.

I'll take a pic soon
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  #39  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:21 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Originally Posted by watercatwn6535nd View Post
So your saying the potato itself should not be in the nutrient? or it should be and there should be a space of about a foot betwwen where the potatoes grow and the root extending down to them.
I found the resource (PDF) from Brazil I was referring to, earlier. It's quite informative and complete, with concepts, designs and even a special potato formula! I basically look out for this kind of more scientific studies and projects. I trust them more than dozens of individual opinions based on what is called "selective observations" of some enthusiastic hobbyists. Also, I try to find intel from outside the Box!

PS: This is actually about "seed potato" production of specific genotypes and varieties. Hydroponic production of potato isn't exactly lucrative, neither on small, medium or large scale. Simply because they grow so well and easily in soil and have no high market value. Well, unless you combine hydroponic and soil culture, - or in case you have a small amount of a heirloom- or rare potato variety you want to multiply more quickly. Or for some other purpose that doesn't consider rentability in a common way. Rentability is a relative matter, also in this domain.

The Production of Seed Potatoes by Hydroponic Methods in Brazil
______________________________________________

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Originally Posted by OChydro View Post
The lettuce I bought from the nursery, rinsed off the soil as best I could is doing well in the aeroponic unit. In the future I will stick with this technique in the late fall and winter. I think the NFT lettuce will excel when the weather warms.
Have you considered changing the nutrient formula according to the climate? If your lettuce grows better and faster in aeroponics (under the same climatic conditions), it indicates that it is related to nutrient uptake. As we know, uptake is accelerated in areroponic systems. Most importantly, a "winter formula" for lettuce looks quite differently, it has notably more nitrogen (and less potassium) and the nutrient strength is somewhat higher. This principle is actually commonly accepted and often practiced by commercial growers. I believe you could easily improve your NFT results by simply modifying your nutrient formula and strength by the book. If you can, of course... Aeroponics for lettuce isn't very economical and compared to culture in NFT gullies, you basically have smaller setups that can only hold a few plants. Why having less production for higher energy cost, if you could improve results by changing nutrient strategy?

I know, for most people, hobbyists and even professional growers, nutrient formulas (their composition, the making or some modification) are still a thorn in their flesh and they prefer going and thinking by product and teaspoon per gallon. But unfortunately this behavior makes nutrient related problems difficult to discuss and to solve.
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  #40  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:27 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default its just gardening

imagine a hydro game show. its on a desert island.

you can have any equipment you want as a group just agree on one type of growing system per group. LOL

all the groups get every food seed they want but one group gets some weed seeds too. I wonder what group won't kill each other and win the game show.

If any group on the planet should get along you would think it would be the gardeners and there cats. My cats name is hydro nip and he admits he has a problem. We start the moring with world peace on the agenda i have my coffe he has some fresh erb from the garden. he bounces off the walls like a hacky sack champion for a 1/2 hour then crashes on his favorite chair in front of the window.

he hasnt killed a mouse or bird since he started using, and now that he is getting some cardio in every day i think he may be getting in better shape.

you've seen cats run to a can opener noise before, this guy can here scissors cutting from the other side of the house.

why cant we all just get along and agree its the dirt people that are the real problem.

can some one tell me how the right way to start a potato from a potato? i just took one with some buds on it cut it in half tossed it under drippers hose. its looking fine but at work today the dirt people said i have no idea what i'm doing. that i'm killing myself with all those chemicals i put in the water and that if just used miricle grow i could probably make it through winter with out a big cancer growing in side me. dirt people are so dum, if hear they have had bumper crop again and just watered with water one more time i may feed them to my venus flytrap.


Last edited by watercatwn6535nd; 01-27-2010 at 01:00 AM. Reason: cant spell to save my life and never proof read tell it posts.
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