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pH Down chemical


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Old 06-04-2011, 10:08 AM
crad crad is offline
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Default pH Down chemical

I am researching and would like to know if any one uses sodium bisulfate to lower the PH?
second does this have any affect on the plants to absorb fertilizer?
third how does this chemical react with fertilizers?

I am using flora nova grow 7-4-10 and my experimental station has 42 plants in it. I really do not want to destroy 42 plants. So I would like to know if anyone has some facts on this.

This is from Wikipedia

Sodium bisulfate, also known as sodium hydrogen sulfate (NaHSO4), is an acid salt. It is a dry granular product that can be safely shipped and stored. The anhydrous form is hygroscopic. Solutions of sodium bisulfate are acidic, with a 1M solution having a pH of < 1.
Sodium bisulfate is used primarily to lower pH. For technical grade applications it is used in metal finishing, cleaning products, and to lower the pH of water for effective chlorination, including swimming pools. Sodium bisulfate is also AAFCO approved as a general use feed additive, including companion animal food. It is used as a urine acidifier to reduce urinary stones in cats. Sodium bisulfate is considered GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) by FDA[1] and meets their definition of a natural product. The food grade product meets the requirements set out in the Food Chemicals Codex (FCC). It is denoted by E number E514ii in the EU. Food Grade sodium bisulfate is used in a variety of food products, including beverages, dressings, sauces, and fillings. It is also widely used in meat and poultry processing and most recently in browning prevention of fresh cut produce.

In jewelry making, sodium bisulfate is the primary ingredient used in many pickling solutions to remove the oxidation layer from surfaces, which occurs after heating.[2]

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Old 06-04-2011, 06:59 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello crad,
I'm not a chemist, but I would be weary of using any form of sodium in hydroponics. Sodium is an element in common table salt, and table salt is toxic to plants. But if you want to give it a try I would suggest typing a e-mail question into a text document. Then look up hydroponic nutrient manufactures, and get their e-mail addresses (manufactures, not the retailers) from their contact us page. Then copy and paste the same question to a dozen manufactures or so, including General Hydroponics. However for manufactures other than general hydroponics, I would leave out the part about what nutrients your using or they may not want to reply.

Manufactures will generally always try to get you to use their products instead, so keep that in mind when reading the reply's. But by asking so many different manufactures the same question, and comparing the replays. There will no doubt be a common thread of information between them all. Some wont give much useful info at all, and just try to steer you to their products, and some will elaborate more on what other manufactures mentioned. But the more manufactures you ask the better your chances of getting timely, and useful responses to your question. For me comparing the common thread of information from many manufactures is important to knowing if what they are telling me is true, or just a sales pitch to get me to buy their products. If they all tell you the same thing, it's much more likely to be true.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:24 AM
crad crad is offline
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Thanks for the reply. I am not a chemist either I bought some hth spa ph decreaser as it was cheap and available locally. other wise no dealers with in 100 plus miles. trying to find the stuff I can use locally so i am curious of what other ph reducers I can use. freight drives my cost up trying to maintain budget on my startup costs. i have spa and pond ph reducers availabe at my disposal. normal green houses carry the pond ph products.

I just made a new batch of growth formula and had to reduce the ph in it and would like to make sure I am not doing damage to stuff. I was concerned when the first word is sodium. so are there compounds that aid in plant productivity associated with ph.
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Old 06-06-2011, 05:40 PM
crad crad is offline
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okay I emailed general hydroponics, advanced nutrients, and dyna-gro and I will post the answers when I get them.

I have received this from Dyna-Grow:

Dyna-Grow: The Nutrition Solution®



Welcome Conrad,



As far as I know no one uses sodium bisulfate for lowering pH in agricultural situations except for very minor adjustments. The primary reason it is not used is that sodium at medium to high concentrations in the nutrient water is "toxic" to the plants. Some sodium is needed for plant health but as the sodium levels rise, the sodium competes with other cations, especially potassium which is very much needed in plants for a number of processes.So generally, sodium is not something you want to add in great quantity to nutrient waters.



The bisulfate certainly lowers pH and is fairly easy to handle compared to sulfuric acid for pH adjustments but again too much is not good. Other acids work just as well and don't have the sodium or sulfate problems that the sodium bisulfate has, although a little bit is ok. As you mentioned, there are many uses of sodium bisulfate for pH adjustments in the food and many industries, but not much in ag.



From the fertilizer standpoint at low total concentrations there is little affect on the solutions until you reach a point of solubility with the sulfate say with calcium, but with plant uptake the interference comes from the competition between the potassium and sodium in the plant system itself.



Sincerely,

James I. Cronin, Ph.DO., Sales Specialist
Dyna-Grow: The Nutrition Solution®
2775 Giant Rd.
Richmond, CA 94806
Phone: 510 233-0254

Toll Free: 800 396-2476


Fax: 510 233-0198
Jim@dyne-grow.com

Last edited by crad; 06-07-2011 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:15 AM
crad crad is offline
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ok old pH down gone new liquid no more stable it is going going and new powdered pH down is on its way. what a hassle do I really need to adjust the pH everyday. that is going to be costly if I do.
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:15 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Once you've mixed your nutrients, and adjusted the pH if needed, you shouldn't need to adjust the pH more than once a week. If your adjusting it daily, somethings wrong somewhere. I have been using earth juice dry pH adjusters, and bought the smallest (one pound) containers. Those adjusters have lasted me well over a year, and cost about $10 ea (shipping not included). General hydroponics makes dry pH adjusters also, and I will be trying them next because the new hydroponics shop (the only one in town) has them in stock, and run something like $11 for 1.5 pounds, and I wont need to pay for shipping because I can get them right here in town.


P.S.
If you don't already have some, you'll want to get some pH up to have on hand as well.
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:50 PM
crad crad is offline
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I have a quart of flora pH up and down, I just got my general hydro powdered pH down. I do not know why but taking that tank of the concrete floor stabilized my pH almost instantly.

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