Tomato Plants are not producing....

[T'Mater]

Ya I think, I run nothing but clean water for about 15min, clean tub add fresh water and nutes.

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by T'Mater

Went out and changed the light's to a 3000k, lowest i could find atm. I know it's just a bandaid.

I don't think that is the answer either, now with the planted tanks we often mix up the spectrum a bit to give the plants a broader range of light they can use. I will ask my buddy over at GreenLady hydroponic (<--- my local hydro store) what spectrum he likes in florescent light bulbs.

-------Minutes Later-------

Ok I just spoke to Dave and he is recommending you run 6400 k bulbs! What do I know...lol

I think you said you where running 6500k's...I will look around a little bit on this.

Your nutrient levels, don't know, but I like running 1100ppm max. drops down to 900 no biggie. I am only running a 35 gallon res at the moment, so it drains out in 4 days or so.

FloraMato, mine says that it is a one part Dry Nutrient, and I use it as such. Though I do amend it with other goodies.

Now for rinsing...not just you reservoir but your plants too. When using salt based nutrients that you and I are both running, it is important to flush out not only the reservoir, the container the plants are growing in, but the roots of the plant themselves. There is something called "Nutrient Lockout" which can effect the plants ability to absorb the nutrients in the nutrient mix. Something about salt crystals clinging to the root, blocking absorption. One of the other guys here might be able to give you a better explanation.

You and I grow in the same containers, the Bato Buckets...remember that little reservoir in the bottom, that needs to be changed over, the media rinsed off (more or less) and the roots themselves. (You are running the elbos in the bottom of the bucket right?) Personally I fill my res. over night (it takes my R.O. unit about 8 hours to make 35 gallons), then allow it to run through a day, then I add fresh water. Only once a month do I actually clean out the reservoir.

Flush weekly
Clean reservoir monthly

Todd

[T'Mater]

Ya that's what i ment, i have a double end on my drip line, i unscrew the cap, turn the pump on and drain the tank. Take everything out, rinse. I take the tank i have and wash it in the bathtub. Fill with plane water stick my drip pump in and let it run nonstop for no less then 15min's. Prolly longer since the wife is home and making me do stuff.

I then take the drip pump back out and rewash the tub and fill it again, mix in my nute's and test.

Yes the bucket's i have, i got from Crop King, they have the elbow.

Kind of sounds like maybe i've been wasteing nutes? You guy's never totally empty your nute tanks?

And yes from what i've read, and GPSFrontier has helped with, it seem's the lower the K the more it helps the plant's want to flower, the higher up the K the more they want to folage. I can say this, just the short amount of time i've put in the 3000k bulbs, i can tell the plant's are growing different.

Yep i read the Floramato product package wrong.....

[T'Mater]

Hey all just wanted to thank you all again for chiming in and helping me figure out my problem.

As of right now, just the switch in light's i can tell that my plant's are getting bushier. And as funny as it sounds have started getting sucker's on them. Hadn't had any up until now.

Waiting for some more money then i'm off to put up more light's.

Hey Freshwater, is your system not a recirculating system?

[ProZachJ]

We had great success in our greenhouse with straight Floramato the whole grow. Just added a bit of diamond nectar (humic/fulvic) and that was it.

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by T'Mater

Hey Freshwater, is your system not a recirculating system?

Hey Mater,

My system is a recirculating drip. I don't like the drip to waste myself. Those systems are set up to deliver the absolute minimum amount of nutrients that the plants need IMO.

Todd

[T'Mater]

So how often are you all changing your nutes? And when you change your nute's do you completely drain your tanks and start over or ?

I tend to change mine about 7-10day's. Is that too soon? And when i change, i completely empty my nute tank and like i've mentioned before, run pure water through the system for at least 15mins.

And when do you know when to increase, or when to switch over from more of a growing formula to a bloom formula? I assume now you all are waiting till you see the first flower's start before switching over.

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by T'Mater

So how often are you all changing your nutes? And when you change your nute's do you completely drain your tanks and start over or ?

Personally I "change" or fill my reservoir right before the pumps run dry (or try too), there is usually about I dunno, 2-4 inches left in the bottom of my res. I go through my res. pretty quick 4-5 days depending on weather. I do not drain my res...I refill,

check PPM of filled tank...(usually 100-200 ppm) ((From residual Nutrient))
adjust my dry Nutrient for a target of 900-1000 ppm.
Add pre-dissolved nutrient to res.,
wait...then test ppm...target achieved

Add addition supplements (Silicone, Kelp) 200-ish ppm gain.
Open Beer...

Oh...and set P.H.

Originally Posted by T'Mater

I tend to change mine about 7-10day's. Is that too soon? And when i change, i completely empty my nute tank and like i've mentioned before, run pure water through the system for at least 15mins.

What kind of water are you running? I had assumed R.O. but I'm not sure if you are running tap/well water.

I drain and clean my reservoir every 4-8 weeks

OK, so nutrient lockout aside, crystals from salts on emitters aside, are you having any problems with the "general health" of your reservoir? Anything fuzzy, goopy, stringy, or oily growing in there? Any bugs?

Are you using H2o2? (hydrogen peroxide)

There is one other step I take when filling my reservoir, When it is down to a couple-few gallons, I will start the filling process which generally occurs over night when the pumps are not running. I add enough H2o2 for a full 30-35 gallons of nutrient, but...there are only a couple-few gallons in the tank. H2o2 is an oxidizer, and a great alternative if you don't want to use bleach when cleaning out a system.

The primary use for it is to help oxygenate the roots of the plants, but it also has a side effect of keeping the reservoir VERY healthy. I add a toxic amount to my reservoir, wait till it fills...or once I get my R.O. water holding tank installed...fill slowly over an hour. It cleans any algae of the pumps, side walls, delivery lines, air stone etc.

Once the reservoir is full, it is diluted to delivery strength for the plants.

So no, it's not too soon... just about right, but if your plants are not drinking it up, and the health/PPM/P.H. are fine you might want to try 2 weeks.

It depends, PPM is a finicky thing...the longer your res. runs, the more individual nutrients the plants uptake, so running your res. longer can deplete individual nutrients from your res. while your PPM looks fine.

Example - Your plants are in a 1000 PPM nutrient system, for whatever reason the plants are going extra crazy for Potassium, and sucking it out to zero, your PPM goes down to 800, you add more dry nutrient to kick you back up to 1000, but your plants are now deficient in K2So4, suck the potassium out of the newly added dry nutrient, and you now have an on going cycle of nutrient fluctuation and/or deficiency.

So now your PPM is within target range, but one individual nutrient is low...While others are increasing.

All this is just my opinion, and my understanding from waaay tooo much time researching this crap on the net, and in books. A bunch of it is from hands on experience as well. Hope I'm not too long winded.

Todd

[T'Mater]

From the time i fill it, to the time i change it. It doesn't hardly use any water. Now that the temp has risen some around here i'm having to add some to keep the EC down. It def. doesn't get anywhere near as low as your's.

I have a rainsoft water filter system for the whole house, so i use my tap water. But when i have to add more water i use my R.O water.

Water seem's to be clear, short of the color given to it by the nutrients. At the bottom of the tank you can tell the nutrients i think are settling but only after a solid week or more of being in the tank.

And no i haven't put any H202 in my system, should i and about how much?? For oxygen i have added 2x10" air stones.

And to make sure my plant's have been getting the right nutes they need that's anothe reason i dump and redo my entire system. Remember i was using GH FloraSeries, but do plan on swapping out to the Maxigro/Floramato nutes. I think it will be easier and more cost effective.

[T'Mater]

One more ? that came to mind. Am about to buy more nutes, and like mentioned i'm swapping over to Maxigro/Flormato.

My ? is, do i even need the Maxigro now that my plant's are as old as they are and should be in the blooming stage? I know Freshwater just used Flormato with some other stuff.

Not trying to make this the worlds longest thread, it's just that i've finally found ppl that have a clue as to what they are talking about and i like to pick brains.

[GpsFrontier]

The Maxigro and Flormato are two different product lines by general hydroponics. Flormato is a stand alone nutrient for continuously fruiting plants (like tomatoes, squash, and peppers), thus it's formulated for all stages of growth of continuously fruiting plants (plants that grow both foliage and fruit at the same time).

The Maxigro product line separates vegetative growth and blooming stages into two different formulas. This is more for plants that grow vegetation in the beginning, then in the last stage grow fruit or bloom (like broccoli). Or plants that you don't really want to bloom anyway (like lettuce, green onions, and spinach) where you want it to focus on growing only foliage (then you would only use the grow formula the whole grow). You can also use it for continuously fruiting plants if you want to get the plants to focus more on foliage in the beginning (using the grow formula), then switching to growing fruit (switching to the bloom formula). But neither the Grow or Bloom of the Maxigro product is specific for continuously fruiting plants. Long story short, if you are growing continuously fruiting plants, the Flormato is all you'll really need.

I use about 5 mL (1tsp) H2O2 (standard 3%) per gallon of water in my systems once to twice a week. Though I have been known for using as much as 10 ml, or not really even measuring, and just pouring some in for older established plants. I just dumped in about 3/4 to 1 cup of H2O2 in my pepper reservoir today (20 gallons in that reservoir). One cup (237 mL) is about 12 mL per gallon in a 20 gallon reservoir. The H2O2 not only adds dissolved oxygen, but helps keep disease and pathogens at bay. So for me I use it for both reasons. I buy it at the dollar store 4-5 (32 oz) bottles at a time. I now also use it for a lot of other things like cleaning dish sponges (soaking it overnight). I used to heat the sponges in the microwave to cook the bacteria, but it would sometimes melt the sponge. The H2O2 kills the bacteria and without damaging the sponge.

[T'Mater]

Gotcha, see I got confused on the Flormato cause it say's on the product label..

http://www.generalhydroponics.com/ge..._dry_1.5lb.pdf

Use Maxigro for the veg. stage and then switch over to FLormato. Sorry for the basic repeat ?'s. Think one of my problem's is i over think the situation and being my first time i'm really hoping for at least 1 tomato by winter LOL...


Bryon

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

I buy it at the dollar store 4-5 (32 oz) bottles at a time.

Hey GPS,

Good hook up on the H202...I am VERY curious about it. I am using a hydroponics product, I am paying 22 bucks for 4 litres (about a gallon) of Nutrilite 29% Oxidizer. Is the H2o2 3% going to work out cheaper?

Todd

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Hey GPS,

Good hook up on the H202...I am VERY curious about it. I am using a hydroponics product, I am paying 22 bucks for 4 litres (about a gallon) of Nutrilite 29% Oxidizer. Is the H2o2 3% going to work out cheaper?

Todd

Hey Freshwater,
I'm not familiar with the Nutrilite 29% Oxidizer product, But assuming it is just 29% H2O2, then it's the same thing just 10 times stronger than the 3% H2O2 I use. To equal 4 liters of the 29%, you would need 40 liters of the 3% (40, 32 oz bottles). I don't know if you get the 29% locally, but if you need to have it shipped (like I would), it would work out about even if the 4 liters of the 29% is $22 +shipping. But I don't really go through that much to really worry about it. If I used large quantities, I would consider using the 30%-35% H2O2, and just diluting it. I pay $1 for each 32 oz bottle at the dollar store, and $1.06 for it at walmart.

But the 30% H2O2 is caustic and can burn skin on contact, and just a tiny bit in your eyes could easily cause permanent eye damage. The 3% is safe to use, in fact it's meant to put on your skin as an antiseptic for cuts, burns etc. to prevent infection. That's why it's located in the pharmacy isle ("hydrogen peroxide"). So I just don't need to worry about wearing any protective gear. You just don't dilute it as much as the 30% (because it's already diluted). So I would need to regularly go through quite a bit before I considered using the 30% stuff myself.

[T'Mater]

I have flower's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by t'mater

i have flower's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

awesome!!!!!!

[T'Mater]

Ok, i have one last favor from you all using FloraMato, how many tsp per gallon do you all use for plant's just starting to produce flower's.

I still haven't gotten any actual fruit, and i just got my FloraMato and am about to flush and start fresh with my plant's.

Never mind, i figured out my own ?, basically i just add to desired PPM, think it's the heat getting to me LOL

[T'Mater]

Well thought i'd give a little update and will get pic's when i can. I've swapped over to FloraMato and the plant's are going bonker's growing and wanting to produce flower's.

Problem is i still don't have enough light, so with the wife and kids help this Wed. they will be moving on outside. And i think i'm going to be in tomato heaven then.

I plan on keeping them in that little greenhouse, i might pull up the side's to let air move better.

How do you guy's deal with rain water in your outdoor systems?

[Freshwater]

Very cool T'Mater,

One word of caution, as you have been vegging these guys out under florescent lighting. You are going to want to harden them off prior to putting them into full sun. I would put up some type of shade cloth, and gradually remove it over a week.

Make sure your plastic green house doesn't get too hot. Remember it's designed to retain heat. Are you in an area that is/was seeing those double digit temp. numbers?

Oh, and what is this rain you speak of? Is that the stuff that falls out of the sky in the winter?

In the winter I let it fill my reservoir, then adjust my p.h. and nutrient PPM after...remember rain is generally pure good water. Though I think you might get a hell-of-a-lot more rain than I do. You might need to devise a cover...not plastic!!! Remember our little green house heat retention system...same thing, and you don't want to cook your roots.

I've seen some of the farms that run Crop King equipment cut Styrofoam "plugs" that the plants grow up through. Might be worth looking into if you get that must rain.


Todd

[GpsFrontier]

I personally don't usually get that much rain to worry about. But if it does rain, the little amount of water that makes it into my system and reservoir, is just that much less water I need to add/replace from what the plants drink up. And with the reservoir placed underneath a table or bench, very little rain water can make it's way inside from the reservoir itself. I also keep an eye on the 10 day weather forecast in my area at intellicast.com (just put in your zip for your local weather forecast). If there's heavy rain forecasted, I just plan my nutrient changes for after the heavy rains.