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Third system


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Old 11-12-2009, 03:29 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Default Third system

I finally got the third system up and running, I was waiting for the seeds to sprout and get big enough. This is a simple flood and drain design using 4 inch ADS tubing, similar to P.V.C. but it's designed for irrigation. You should be able to find it in the same isle as the P.V.C. tubing at Home Depot and Lowe's hardware stores. The ADS tubing looks much the same but is made of 3 different layers. The inside layer is black (and lightproof), the second provides structural support, the last is the white outer layer. This stuff is real easy to cut and is inexpensive at about $8 for a 10 foot tube. The end caps were $1.97.

I cut holes in the end caps to insert the through holes, then flooded the system to mark where I was going to glue the end caps in place. I just used regular P.V.C. glue that I already had. I also already had the threaded elbow connectors for the P.V.C., and the pieces of 1/2 in P.V.C tubing used for the overflow tube. You will notice on the overflow tube there is a "T" connector with a piece of tubing extending up, then some holes drilled in the end cap of that tube. This is to insure there are no air bubbles that can get trapped in the overflow that might cause it to not function properly. Also the long black piece of P.V.C. that runs the span of the tube is just one I already had from long ago. It had been in the garage so long that it was bent so I just zip tied it to a long piece of wood to kind of striation it out.

The nutrient reservoir is one that I am reusing from my pepper plants last summer. I painted the top black (to lightproof it) then white (to reflect light). The bottom part is actually two containers, one inside the other with spray insulation foam between them. So the insulation provides the light proofing. The stands were just made from 2x4's then painted white. I used a 4 inch tube coupler that I cut in half, then screwed them to the stands for the tube to rest in. I used a buggy cord over the top of the tube (to hold it in place).

I have 3 diffrent plants in this system peas, sugar peas and green beans. I will be building a trellis (similar to the one I have for my tomato's in the background) for these to climb on. I will also be adding summer squash to this system. Though the squash will actually be a drip system running from the same pump. So I will have both drip, and a flood and drain systems running from the same pump. I have a one way flow valve that I got for $8 that will be inline with the drip system. This will allow the nutrient to flow to the drip system but when the pump shuts off it will close. This wont allow any back flow from the drip side of the system that would allow air bubbles, and then stop the siphoning back to the reservoir from the flood and drain side of the system.

ADS tube $8
end caps $1.97 x 2, $4
pump $44
through holes $1.97 x 2, $4
tube coupler $2

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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 11-12-2009 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:47 AM
lfc-montana lfc-montana is offline
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Thanks for those pictures. I'm planning something very similar (along with the corn system from the other thread). I have 3 20' sections of deck railing, and I'm thinking about running this along the top of the railings....probably starting with one 20' section and adding others end-to-end when I see how it works. Your plumbing layout looks like it would work perfectly for me. Not sure yet what to plant....have to figure out compatible plants for that large a system.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:10 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfc-montana View Post
Thanks for those pictures. I'm planning something very similar (along with the corn system from the other thread). I have 3 20' sections of deck railing, and I'm thinking about running this along the top of the railings....probably starting with one 20' section and adding others end-to-end when I see how it works. Your plumbing layout looks like it would work perfectly for me. Not sure yet what to plant....have to figure out compatible plants for that large a system.
Sounds great, I would love to see pictures of both systems when you get them going. Is the weather in Montana going to be a problem for you this time of year?
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:06 AM
lfc-montana lfc-montana is offline
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Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
Sounds great, I would love to see pictures of both systems when you get them going. Is the weather in Montana going to be a problem for you this time of year?
No way that I will be setting up either system until mid-spring. I don't think I could find a pump to push 0 degree F nutrient thru the pipes!! I expect to be starting seeds towards the end of April, and have them ready as the weather warms.

Currently I have 2 systems set up in my work room....an 8 bucket Dutch drip system (currently ending a cycle with just one broccoli and some chard left) and a 2x4 flood/drain system that I'm now starting seeds for.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:29 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
I don't think I could find a pump to push 0 degree F nutrient thru the pipes!!
No I wouldn't expect so, and nutrient that cold wouldn't be good for the plants either. Though there are ways to keep the nutrients warm like insulating the nutrient tank, using fish tank warmers, heated blankets and such. For the pipes a layer or two of pipe insulation along with pumping the warm nutrient through it regularly would probably be enough to keep the pipes and roots from freezing (though I have not dealt with growing in weather that cold). I think you were going to be growing the plants on your deck so I wasn't sure if the deck was enclosed to keep most of the heat out and/or if you were planing to use heaters to keep the plants warm. Do you have any pictures of the setups in your work room?
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Old 11-14-2009, 12:05 PM
lfc-montana lfc-montana is offline
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I don't have any pics yet, but I will charge up the batteries and take some today. By the way, it's snowing a little bit this morning......
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:32 PM
ohman11 ohman11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
I finally got the third system up and running, I was waiting for the seeds to sprout and get big enough. This is a simple flood and drain design using 4 inch ADS tubing, similar to P.V.C. but it's designed for irrigation. You should be able to find it in the same isle as the P.V.C. tubing at Home Depot and Lowe's hardware stores. The ADS tubing looks much the same but is made of 3 different layers. The inside layer is black (and lightproof), the second provides structural support, the last is the white outer layer. This stuff is real easy to cut and is inexpensive at about $8 for a 10 foot tube. The end caps were $1.97.

I cut holes in the end caps to insert the through holes, then flooded the system to mark where I was going to glue the end caps in place. I just used regular P.V.C. glue that I already had. I also already had the threaded elbow connectors for the P.V.C., and the pieces of 1/2 in P.V.C tubing used for the overflow tube. You will notice on the overflow tube there is a "T" connector with a piece of tubing extending up, then some holes drilled in the end cap of that tube. This is to insure there are no air bubbles that can get trapped in the overflow that might cause it to not function properly. Also the long black piece of P.V.C. that runs the span of the tube is just one I already had from long ago. It had been in the garage so long that it was bent so I just zip tied it to a long piece of wood to kind of striation it out.

The nutrient reservoir is one that I am reusing from my pepper plants last summer. I painted the top black (to lightproof it) then white (to reflect light). The bottom part is actually two containers, one inside the other with spray insulation foam between them. So the insulation provides the light proofing. The stands were just made from 2x4's then painted white. I used a 4 inch tube coupler that I cut in half, then screwed them to the stands for the tube to rest in. I used a buggy cord over the top of the tube (to hold it in place).

I have 3 diffrent plants in this system peas, sugar peas and green beans. I will be building a trellis (similar to the one I have for my tomato's in the background) for these to climb on. I will also be adding summer squash to this system. Though the squash will actually be a drip system running from the same pump. So I will have both drip, and a flood and drain systems running from the same pump. I have a one way flow valve that I got for $8 that will be inline with the drip system. This will allow the nutrient to flow to the drip system but when the pump shuts off it will close. This wont allow any back flow from the drip side of the system that would allow air bubbles, and then stop the siphoning back to the reservoir from the flood and drain side of the system.

ADS tube $8
end caps $1.97 x 2, $4
pump $44
through holes $1.97 x 2, $4
tube coupler $2
How much of a pump do you need for this system? I like what you have done, great work!
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:09 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Quote:
How much of a pump do you need for this system? I like what you have done, great work!
Any of my pumps will work for this system. It's only actually pumping 1 to 2 feet up at most (pump ratings call that the "head height"). The tube holds about 5 gallons when filled. About 1 and 1/2 gallons stays in the tube when drained. The pump I am using is actually way to strong for the system. It will fill the system faster than the overflow can drain it, so it will overflow out of the top if I didn't adjust it. The pump inlet is set at a low setting but I still need to do more to reduce the flow. I took a "T" connector and put it inline with the feeding line, then connected a small piece of tubing to the middle horizontal connection. This splits the feeding line into two lines but only one end goes to the plants the other end stays in the reservoir.
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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 02-25-2010 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 11:03 AM
ohman11 ohman11 is offline
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I have a qusetion, What size netpot did you use? Is it 3 3/4? What size hole did you drill?
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:01 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by ohman11 View Post
I have a qusetion, What size netpot did you use? Is it 3 3/4?
I used 3" net pots (pictures attached). I bought a 100 pack a couple of years ago when I was in Las Vegas. If I remember correctly they were about $25 for the 100 pack. That would make them about $0.25 a piece.
Quote:
What size hole did you drill?
Well, I didn't use a hole saw. I drilled them freehand with a rotary tool I already had (pictures attached). It wasn't as hard as it sounds. I first needed a template for the hole size. I traced the top of the basket onto the thin plastic lid of a margarine tub, cut it out. Then trimmed it down until it just barely fit into the top of the basket, that way I knew it would be slightly smaller than the baskets so the baskets wouldn't fall through the holes. I drew a straight line, straight down the side of the tube. All the holes would be centered on this line. This is important to the water level in the tube because it will begin to overflow out the lowest point, if one hole was lower than the other it will overflow at that point. The line insures that all the holes would be level and in line with all the rest.

Then I measured the length of the tube, subtracted 4 inches for each side (2" for the end caps, and 2" for the end spacing), then divided that by 12 (amount of pots I wanted). This would give me the spacing between pots. Because the template was a thin plastic it easily bends around the tube, making it easy to trace on the tube. I put a mark on one end at 4 inches (2" for the end caps, and 2" for the end spacing), then centered the template on the long line with the edge of it at the 4" mark. Then traced the template on the tube, and put an "x" in the center of the outline, on the long line. That was my starting point, from there I made 11 more "x's" along the line at the pre-determined spacing that I figured out earlier. I eye-balled the centering of the template on the "x," but it would probably be better to place a hole in the center of the template, so it would be easier to line up with the "x" on the tube.

Once I had all my holes drawn on the tube I used the rotary tool to cut them out. It cuts through the ADS tubing very easily. Sounds like a long process but it was actually easy. Using another person to hold the tube and tape measure so I could get a straight line the whole process took about 30 min.

P.S. Measure twice, cut once.
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:54 AM
ohman11 ohman11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
I used 3" net pots (pictures attached). I bought a 100 pack a couple of years ago when I was in Las Vegas. If I remember correctly they were about $25 for the 100 pack. That would make them about $0.25 a piece.
Well, I didn't use a hole saw. I drilled them freehand with a rotary tool I already had (pictures attached). It wasn't as hard as it sounds. I first needed a template for the hole size. I traced the top of the basket onto the thin plastic lid of a margarine tub, cut it out. Then trimmed it down until it just barely fit into the top of the basket, that way I knew it would be slightly smaller than the baskets so the baskets wouldn't fall through the holes. I drew a straight line, straight down the side of the tube. All the holes would be centered on this line. This is important to the water level in the tube because it will begin to overflow out the lowest point, if one hole was lower than the other it will overflow at that point. The line insures that all the holes would be level and in line with all the rest.

Then I measured the length of the tube, subtracted 4 inches for each side (2" for the end caps, and 2" for the end spacing), then divided that by 12 (amount of pots I wanted). This would give me the spacing between pots. Because the template was a thin plastic it easily bends around the tube, making it easy to trace on the tube. I put a mark on one end at 4 inches (2" for the end caps, and 2" for the end spacing), then centered the template on the long line with the edge of it at the 4" mark. Then traced the template on the tube, and put an "x" in the center of the outline, on the long line. That was my starting point, from there I made 11 more "x's" along the line at the pre-determined spacing that I figured out earlier. I eye-balled the centering of the template on the "x," but it would probably be better to place a hole in the center of the template, so it would be easier to line up with the "x" on the tube.

Once I had all my holes drawn on the tube I used the rotary tool to cut them out. It cuts through the ADS tubing very easily. Sounds like a long process but it was actually easy. Using another person to hold the tube and tape measure so I could get a straight line the whole process took about 30 min.

P.S. Measure twice, cut once.
Thats a good idea and much cheaper than a hole saw. I just bought a 3 5\8 one and they are pretty pricey. I plan to make a few more so I guess I will get my moneys worth out of it.
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:11 PM
NorEastFla NorEastFla is offline
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Hi GpsFrontier, that's a very efficient system you've built.

I do have a question for you. How will you keep rain from getting into the top of the net baskets and diluting your nutrient solution?

I live in Florida, where it rains quite a bit. This would be a real concern for me. I have no idea how much rain you get where you live.
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:51 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello NorEastFla,
We don't get nearly the amount of rain that you do, I live in the AZ. desert. That system was up and running last winter/spring when we get most of our rain for the year. The rest we get in late summer during the monsoons. But I never had any issues of that system flooding or overflowing. I changed reservoirs (to a larger one) in spring when the plants started to grow rapidly because of the warmer weather. The first reservoir held up to 10 gallons, the later one held up to 18 gallons. I never measured how much water got in the system, some did. But between the little amount that did, and how much the plants drink daily, I didn't have a problem with that even if it rained for 3 days.

But in your case you will get much more rain than me. In witch case if it becomes a problem I have a simple answer for that. I would just use plastic lids, like from empty margarine, butter, sour cream etc. containers ,as long as it is larger than the baskets. Cut holes in the center of them large enough for the stem of the plant to grow and and not grow into the lid. Then cut a slit down one side so it's easy to slip on and off when needed. And in cases of high winds, a zip-lock bag with some sand in it tucked around the stem on top of the plastic lids should keep it snugly in place. Not that it would fly off, but the edge of the plastic lid can cut into the stem if it moves around a lot. As for the reservoir, I would just place it underneath a table or something to keep water off the lid and draining through the cut-outs.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:35 PM
NorEastFla NorEastFla is offline
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Hey GpsFrontier, your idea is good, but I think I'll try something like in my attached sketch. The plant stem would be trained over and under 1/2" PVC into a drip loop with a "roof" over the pipe and basket.

This will be easy to build. After I have one up and running, using your idea with the ebb and flow pipe, I'll post it into a thread I'll start.

I really like your pipe idea.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:29 PM
sportycliff sportycliff is offline
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Well, I guess I'll jump right in here (in the middle of an old thread) and say thanks, this was a VERY informative thread and has given me a ton of ideas!
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:04 PM
halfway halfway is offline
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Indeed. This is one heavy-duty thread suitable for printing and referencing. There are a few more by various posters as well that have been instrumental in speeding my learning curve by years.

Thanks to all who post and have posted....well done!
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