Brainstorming: Corn formula and best growing setup

[GpsFrontier]

But it's true that it happens that I am getting frustrated and even upset by the fact that I am talking and explaining things - with the sole result of encountering some sort of non funded resistance. Resistance that often pops up reflexively without proper back up, nor based on facts and experience.

The fact is, you are the one without the facts. That's because you don't bother to ask any questions and just assume that your experiences are the only correct ones. You assume that my figures are off about my broccoli plants needing 20-25 gallons of nutrient solution to run as a flood and drain. The fact is you know nothing about the system. You assume that I would use the same growing medium that you would. You don't know the pump I am using or how much nutrient solution is needed in the reservoir to keep it from running dry. You don't know how often I check to see if I need to add more water to make up for evaporation. The fact is you know nothing except your experiences. I didn't tell you how much your system would require, that's because I don't know all the variables. You see in this country we like to ask questions first, its just arrogant not to do so. You should of asked how I came to that conclusion before assuming that I am wrong.

My figures were not meant to be exact figures. I may very well be off but most likely not more than by 5 gallons. So let say it would take 15 gallons to run. That is still more than twice the amount it is using now. THAT IS A FACT. I am not going to rebuild the system as a flood and drain and test it, to get an exact figure just to satisfy you. MY POINT IS STILL VALID.

F.Y.I. I worked it out today as to how much the nutrient cost me. I am not going to go through all the details so you will just need to believe me or not. I use the Flora Series 3 part nutrients, at about $25 a bottle and needing all 3 to make work. Using 10 ml per gal of each. It cost about $40 per 265 ready made gallons or about 1000 litters. That does not even include the shipping, because I live in a town where the nearest place to get it is over a 3 hr drive away. It being a liquid it's quit heavy 30+ pounds.

[Luches]

What are you talking about now - you must be really confused?!

I wasn't talking about your broccoli or your setup or whatever - at No time an I didn't care earlier and do not at this time. Why? Because this is supposed to be about CORN and in some way (well I hope so) about the setup and the follow-up of what I have been showing all along. And eventually about what ever comes up (from anyone) about the very same topic of CORN FORMULA AND BEST GROWING SETUP - of course... And in case I would be interested in your broccoli setup or whatever may be of interest that you could tell, it goes without saying that I would ask!

Yes, I have the facts but just because I have them for this very thing - if I wouldn't I would rather be lost in my part of the venture. Those growing containers only hold one gallon of nutrient each, after the media is filled in. This is a fact I could even prove with a real time video in case it would be required! And for most things I was talking about, there was- and is -no point in asking questions either. Because as a matter of facts, I am supposed to know those things as a presenter. Hence not asking questions from my side and in this very context, has strictly nothing to do with politeness, behavior or social competence. And certainly not with American lifestyle or whatever political correctness may be applied in your country in such case (btw. is this the WORLD WIDE WEB or is this America? If it's America, I am outa here for good!). Otherwise, if at some moment in time there are questions to ask or even permissions to get, I will behave like a good kid - simply trust me on this. I have traveled around the world (have even been in USA, Middle- and South America) and I am no exotic hill billy - so better save your argument and nerve for some real emergency of the kind.

Cheers,
Luches

[GpsFrontier]

Not confused at all

I wasn't talking about your broccoli or your setup or whatever - at No time an I didn't care earlier and do not at this time. Why? Because this is supposed to be about CORN and in some way (well I hope so)

You need to re read the post then. I was using the set up as an explanation as a comparison to what I meant between the drip system using less nutrients to run compared to a flood and drain system. It doesn't matter what is in the buckets, it could just as easily be corn as the other poster was wanting to use 5 gal buckets for.

Yes, I have the facts but just because I have them for this very thing - if I wouldn't I would rather be lost in my part of the venture. Those growing containers only hold one gallon of nutrient each, after the media is filled in. This is a fact I could even prove with a real time video in case it would be required!

No need because, well as you said "I didn't care earlier and do not at this time." I am sorry, I wasn't aware that your system in this post is the only one that we were allowed to talk about for growing corn. I thought it was about the best setups for growing corn as well. I guess you have already determined the best setup and that is it. So I guess there is no need for input from anyone else.

And for most things I was talking about, there was- and is -no point in asking questions either. Because as a matter of facts, I am supposed to know those things as a presenter.

Yes but do you. It is just here say from this end. You require proof from everyone else why are you exempt? I wouldn't make an issue of it except you do with almost every post.

has strictly nothing to do with politeness, behavior or social competence. And certainly not with American lifestyle or whatever political correctness may be applied in your country in such case (btw. is this the WORLD WIDE WEB or is this America? If it's America, I am outa here for good!).

Yes it is the world wide web that is very true, but you should ask yourself if that gives you a right to be rude to others. I guess I should not care how things come across to others either after all they probably don't live around here anyway. Just remember you usually get back what you dish out.

if at some moment in time there are questions to ask or even permissions to get, I will behave like a good kid - simply trust me on this.

I guess I will have to because I haven't seen it yet. I don't care where you have traveled or how long you have been there. No reason to care.

[Luches]

Firstly for the record: A E/F system doesn't necessary need much (or much more) nutrients as some drip systems or others. It may be of a personal interest to you and in your situation - BUT IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT with general value nor general interest. Because if the amount of nutrient in use is a matter, you can always design it in ways it doesn't use much. My design is literary random in matters of the amount of nutrient that is necessary. That is more than proof enough that it is possible to design others which use that little or even less. I am definitely done with this part - case closed!

OFF the record: I guess I give up on you here. As long as you are bending everything to your situation and the way you want to see things, I can't possibly get through to you - ever.

I've been telling you a lot about making nutrients earlier - and I could have get you through it until you were able to do it by yourself. If only you have wanted, - but you came up with your situation instead. It's your choice - and I am just citing an example of my intention to only provide help and support.

After that, I have been showing you a working heating system (you were actually looking for), but you didn't want to accept the fact that it is working as I explained. Until, until - I went over an over it again. It took me some work, time and patience indeed, but you finally accepted that it works.

Here in this thread again, I have provided and shared some input and information that isn't random and was in your own interest in the first place. I have calculated a formula that is based on plant residue analyses (yet not confirmed correct and working, - but probably a good approach). I've designed and put together a setup inspired on what I saw around by googling. This looks like it meets the requirements for growing corn. It uses low tech, a very small pump (with 5-6 watt consumption only) And most importantly, this very setup isn't using much nutrients to flood the growing beds. It should actually perfectly fit into your concept - but you seem to not consider or appreciate any of it.

Firstly you told us that you are interested in this topic but couldn't provide much, as you had no experience with Corn. But this was only valid until you found a way to put yourself back in the game with comparisons of your own setups. But that wasn't exactly necessary because this concerns your setup only and has no real general value so far. And that is were the confusion and the trouble started in the first place. I didn't see any sense in following and focussing on that part for a good reason. All attempts to make you understand- and get back to the part of the deal with general (not my own) interest, were truly futile. Because you can't ever let go of your thing. I also didn't come up with any personal matters or backgrounds in the first place, that was you - so don't tell me who cares about what, eventually - when I share mine as well.

And at the end you try to make me look like the bad boy here, because I loose my patience with the fact that you are never satisfied with what is brought in from my side. Instead you systematically put up resistance and eventually look for any bit that could serve as an argument. Thank you so much for that! It's the most nice appreciation you could ever provide! You blame an bite the hand that feeds you, - the first time you have overdone it with dinner!

[GpsFrontier]

A E/F system doesn't necessary need much (or much more) nutrients

Then you have some trick up your sleeve the rest of the world doesn't (but don't bother to explain it). Any drip system that is using the minimum amount of nutrients, then using the same exact system just converted to a E/F system will run the pump dry before it completely floods using the same amount of nutrients, as far as I know.

Because if the amount of nutrient in use is a matter, you can always design it in ways it doesn't use much.

I never said you couldn't.

That is more than proof enough that it is possible to design others which use that little or even less.

Again I never said you couldn't.

As long as you are bending everything to your situation and the way you want to see things

My situation is the one I have, do you expect me to have your situation? I am not you, I am not in your situation, or even in your country. If I was I would be you. I am a different person, with a different life, what do you expect?

I've been telling you a lot about making nutrients earlier - and I could have get you through it until you were able to do it by yourself. If only you have wanted, - but you came up with your situation instead.

I am not sure what you expect. I am sorry if my financial situation offends you. I didn't come up with any situation instead. I didn't know how involved it is to do right until you explain that to me, and thank you by the way. I don't want to do it until I can do it right.

After that, I have been showing you a working heating system (you were actually looking for), but you didn't want to accept the fact that it is working as I explained. Until, until - I went over an over it again. It took me some work, time and patience indeed, but you finally accepted that it works.

That is just a lie, I always accepted that it worked and I told you that in that thread. You spent time to do the drawings that I still thank you for, but the fact is I didn't understand HOW it worked, not if it worked. How do you expect me to build it and put it together If I don't understand how. You accused me of of things that were not true in that thread. I tried to assure you that I was trying to (and just wanted to) understand. But it is apparent that you never beveled me then or now. I am not sure how you expect me to apologize for not understanding but I am sorry you feel that way.

Here in this thread again, I have provided and shared some input and information that isn't random and was in your own interest in the first place. I have calculated a formula that is based on plant residue analyses (yet not confirmed correct and working, - but probably a good approach). I've designed and put together a setup inspired on what I saw around by googling. This looks like it meets the requirements for growing corn. It uses low tech, a very small pump (with 5-6 watt consumption only) And most importantly, this very setup isn't using much nutrients to flood the growing beds. It should actually perfectly fit into your concept - but you seem to not consider or appreciate any of it.

I never said that I was not considering it, that is in your head only. As far as it being a E/F system is there any reason that it cant be converted to a drip? No it can be converted very easily. I may not even do that. Fact is I haven't made any decisions about anything concerning growing corn yet. I do have some concerns about the root space being large enough. I may even want to use my other idea about the wading pool, who knows. I was replying to another person that had a different design in mind. I just wanted to give my opinion to him about the setup he was considering. What did you want me to do? Say no don't do it that way this is the right way to do it? I was not aware that in this thread we were only to talk about the system you have built and nothing else.

Are these not quotes from your original post for this thread?

"If I am not mistaken, a few members (including myself) are interested in growing corn hydroponically. So, why not put together as much info as we can get from many sources, personal experiences (if available)"

"Let's find out what kind of setup or system (as well as media) is most appropriate and adapted to grow corn. "

I have been talking about personal experiences, that's all that I have to talk about. Also it mentions discussing different kinds of setups and systems (as well as media). But you only seem to want to discuss the one you have built, and don't want to entertain other ideas. That's fine, but those quotes imply differently and are quit misleading in the intention of this thread.

Firstly you told us that you are interested in this topic but couldn't provide much, as you had no experience with Corn. But this was only valid until you found a way to put yourself back in the game with comparisons of your own setups.

Again the quotes you provided in the original post of this thread implied that other ideas were welcome.

But that wasn't exactly necessary because this concerns your setup only and has no real general value so far.

This may very well be true as far as you are concerned. Though your original post implied other Ideas were welcome, and someone other than you may find some value from my posts.

And that is were the confusion and the trouble started in the first place.

Actually the confusion started with your original post implying that other ideas were welcome instead of just the ones you select to be useful.

All attempts to make you understand- and get back to the part of the deal with general (not my own) interest, were truly futile.

If you were interested in general ideas and not your own you would not be offended by my posts, but just simply ignore or dismiss them for others to decide for themselves if they find any value in them.

I also didn't come up with any personal matters or backgrounds in the first place, that was you - so don't tell me who cares about what, eventually - when I share mine as well.

Well, you are right about that. I won't make any excuses for it. I do want to say I am sorry for saying that, and I do want to apologize to you for it.

And at the end you try to make me look like the bad boy here, because I loose my patience with the fact that you are never satisfied with what is brought in from my side. Instead you systematically put up resistance and eventually look for any bit that could serve as an argument.

I don't know if you are a bad person or not because I don't really know you. I do know that you have no tolerances for me or others in this forum. You seem to have good days but mostly bad ones for whatever reason. That reflects in my opinion of you because it's all I know about you. If you think I am never satisfied that's up to you, but untrue. The fact is you refuse to understand that other people might do things different from the way you do, and maybe even just want to do things the way they want to. The fact is they should be able to do things there way, and should have the right to be able to share it with the people that are interested with it as well. You also have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't understand what you are saying, you simply feel (and come to the conclusion) that they are just trying to argue. That is not someone who wants to communicate. That is a do what I say because I know everything attitude that nobody likes (I'am sure you don't).

[Luches]

I am not continuing this unproductive debate any longer. From my understanding it isn't the purpose of a forum to get that deeply involved in personal debates and differences of the kind - certainly not publicly. Hence someone has to stop the vicious circle - and as part of this celebratory opening, I guess I do volunteer

And guess what, in the future I am not willing to loosing my time with that sort of games either. I am only replying to whatever seems of general interest and truly productive to me.

Cheers,
Luches

[GGM]

Started growing the corn yet?

[lfc-montana]

Originally Posted by GGM

Started growing the corn yet?

Well, considering it's 17 degrees F right now, and snowing just a little bit......NO!

[GGM]

Originally Posted by lfc-montana

Well, considering it's 17 degrees F right now, and snowing just a little bit......NO!

I am asking Luches, who I believe is living in Thailand?

[Luches]

Right, northern Thailand here, which means 18° North. A bit cool at this time of the year actually, but warm enough to grow corn here "without being holier than thou or anyone".

Unfortunately the guy with the connection in the South Americas who was supposed to provide the heirloom corn seeds did screw up and didn't send any seeds. I had to listen to some fictional excuse story with issues involved that I couldn't contest without loosing my temper.
Grandpa was right when he told me that this world is no good

But yes, I have started a week after my last post with local seeds of a small sized variety instead.

[Amigatec]

I see so many thing wrong with this whole thread.

First, Luches went into this so called explanation for the formula for corn but he NEVER explained how to make the formula, or even what is in it.

Second, This system Luches bilt probably won't work, I don't see any screens over the fittings, it wouldn't last long without screens, the Res is NOT big enough. I don't care what he/she says.

Third, the rocks he is using just won't work either, they don't hold any water.

Fourth, Corn likes lots of Nitogen, I have grown it in dirt before, and you will have to add N at least twice during the growing process.
He may be a Self-Proclaimed expert, but his lack of real knowledge shines right throught.

[GpsFrontier]

This system Luches bilt probably won't work

I also had concerns about the lack of screens, and just using gravel as a growing medium for the same reasons. I also was concerned with leaking where the inlet and outlet tubes go through the growing containers. It's my experience no mater how tight you make the holes they will leak if not sealed. I hadn't mentioned these for two reasons. One, well you have read enough of Luchas's threads to know what would happen if I did. Also, I would fix these problems before I grow if I used a similar design. I have my suspicions about nutrients also, I haven't looked it up but I would guess that corn is a heavy feeder, especially when the corn cobs are growing.

[Amigatec]

Another problem I see is Corn roots are very shallow, and I don't think he will have enough material to hold the plants up. Corn can be knocked over very easily.

As far a number of ears, the most you can get from 1 plant is 2 or 3 ears, most will only produce 1 or 2. It seems like a big effort for little return.

[GGM]

Originally Posted by Amigatec

Another problem I see is Corn roots are very shallow, and I don't think he will have enough material to hold the plants up. Corn can be knocked over very easily.

As far a number of ears, the most you can get from 1 plant is 2 or 3 ears, most will only produce 1 or 2. It seems like a big effort for little return.

I think he got the idea from YouTube - HYDROPONIC CORN and part 2 YouTube - hydropond corn @ 60 days part #2 , that guy didn't seem to have any problems growing it in a shallow container.

[GpsFrontier]

Originally Posted by Amigatec

Another problem I see is Corn roots are very shallow, and I don't think he will have enough material to hold the plants up. Corn can be knocked over very easily.

As far a number of ears, the most you can get from 1 plant is 2 or 3 ears, most will only produce 1 or 2. It seems like a big effort for little return.

This is my biggest concern. For me it would need to economical to grow. I am thinking of using a wading pool (like the small plastic ones you get for your kids). Something like 1 1/2 feet deep and 8-10 feet wide. Again it would need to be economical, so the large amount of growing medium and cost of it could be a problem. Using gravel is a good start but it would need something that can retain moisture but not be expensive to be worth the cost. For something that large I would most likely go with a drip system also.

Another problem I see is Corn roots are very shallow, and I don't think he will have enough material to hold the plants up. Corn can be knocked over very easily.

Lushes had an idea for the extended tubing support that I think would work. Although with all the plants I don't think there would be enough root space for that many full grown plants. Even with the nutrients being delivered to the plants roots so the plants don't need to search out nutrients from soil, corn can grow 8 feet tall as far as I know and the plants need root space to mature and be full size. It's hard to tell from the video but those plants don't look to be more than 4 or 5 feet tall, also there is no way to tell how large the corn cobs actually got.

[Amigatec]

Corn should be planted in a block so the pollen will hit the silk. The tassels at the top of the plant are the male parts and contain the pollen. The silk is the female part and makes the corn.
If the corn is planted to thick the pollen will never reach the silk, unless you hand pollinate.

[GpsFrontier]

If the corn is planted to thick the pollen will never reach the silk, unless you hand pollinate.

How far apart do you think corn stalks/plants should be planted for best results?

[Amigatec]

At least 10"-12" apart. I used to plant mine with about 12" between plants and maybe 20" between rows.