organic hydro nutrients?

[oTOMMYo]

Hello.

Im using chemical feed at the moment for my hydro and would like to go all organic...iv heard its easier with no ph problems or worry of over feeding and a much healthier plant.

But i honesty don't know where to start..

Is there a simple way to do it without a load of tea making( which i don't mind messing about with)....and having a good home for the good bacteria.

Thank you.

All info would be much appreciated.

[e_deher]

nutrients&sprefix=organic+hydr%2Caps%2C284" target="_blank">Amazon.com: organic hydroponic nutrients

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

Organic nutrients are a nightmare and a total mess. They are difficult to clean up, smell and rot easily in less than ideal conditions. They clog up drippers and emitters quickly and are just all-around less than ideal in my opinion for these reason.

You'd have to make very strong tea in order to go all organic. Generally speaking the tea, like earth worm casting tea, doesnt provide much nutrition and you don't know exactly what is or isn't in there. It also takes the plants more energy to break down the nutrients in order to use them making for less than ideal growth.

I'd stick with nutrient salts and I'd make sure I used the sterile hydro method and avoid putting ANYTHING living in my reservoir or you are sure to have major root issues if you don't keep your reservoir temps below 68F-ish. Hope that helps.

So you recommend sticking to chems and not using beneficial bacteria?

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

That's correct. I highly recommend starting out with RO water and using nutrient salts, what you're calling "chems". The salts are not able to be broken down by bacteria, that's not what they eat and can actually kill them much like a snail and salt. The two are not really compatible, yes there are exceptions. This is a tired conversation amongst gardeners however because both ways work given they are within the variables need to make them work so both sides will argue who's is better etc.

Look at it from this standpoint. Do you want a bunch of living organisms floating around in your nutrient salts hoping they live long enough to be able to attach themselves to something organic like roots or falling leaf matter in the reservoir and if they don't live then they die and create root rot and root slime breading havens 100% of the time? Also, do you want to clean up the biological mess they create with every nutrient change out and continuously have to buy new airstones because that's the only place these living organisms can safely grow in your reservoir?

Or look at it this way. Do you want to use clean nutrient salts that create no mess, are readily available and chelated and can be custom tailored to your plants exact needs? Also, when you do nutrient change outs using the sterile method there isn't anything to clean because everything comes out sparkling new. Your plants have no competition from anything living in your nutrient reservoir eating up your nutrient salts, things like bacteria and slime and molds and so on or algae etc etc.

Check out DutchMaster's Zone and read up on h202 in nutrient reservoirs. You will encounter people who are hard-core about beneficials and people who are against it for the reasons above. Sterile hydro is the only way to go in my opinion and it's the cleanest and cheapest, you dont have to buy expensive biologicals. My 2 cents...

i totally see where you coming from with sterile way. I know what h²0² is and have used it once before to clear a small problem , but using it all the time is something i may consider after abit more research ( but i do understand your side completely )....... If i was to go down the sterile way how much and how often would i use 9% h²0² in a 25 ltr res ?...
Also ..i don't need RO water.

Thanks oTOMMYo

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

I recommend the food grade h202 29% stuff, I get it from Amazon.com. I use it at about 3ml per gallon and if there's an issue i've used it as high as 5ml per gallon but only for flushing etc as that MAY burn plant roots etc if you leave it in there. h202 turns into water and oxygen, both are positives for your plants. In low oxygen reservoirs, ie reservoirs with high temps, adding more oxygen is a huge boon. It doesn't last long, maybe 24 to 48 hours bit it'll set back anything trying to grow in your res. DutchMaster Zone is something like chlorine, like in pools, that helps prevent algae and other things. I use Zone and h202 together with no issues, Zone at 2ml per gallon and h202 at 3ml per gallon. I do NOT add anything living so no enzymes or beneficials at all.

If you can keep your reservoir temps down below 65F and above 55F then beneficials may be the way to go for you otherwise sterile is the way to go. Going with beneficials is more mess to clean up and your results will be higher production but not by much so it's not worth the extra months of trouble and cleaning. Think it through, see what makes sense for you and go that way. Do a test run with both side by side and see which you like in the end. Matter of fact, you should start a grow journal on here and we'll see what happens with your side-by-side test.

You mentioned having my water chilled, iv got a chiller and my water is at 16-17°c ........so would i be best just using h²0² twice a week at 3ml/ gallon.

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

If you have a water chiller that's fantastic and if you can keep your water temps that low as well as keep the light out of your reservoir you should be good-to-go. It doesn't hurt to still run the h202 even at that temp, it'll just keep everything really, really clean in your pipes, ducts, sprayers and so on so you'll basically never have to clean up very much as little will survive the h202. The Zone is important for conditioning the water for a long term picture and I highly recommend running that. If I were you I'd run Zone and that's it since you have the chiller. Buy the h202 but use it to clean everything as it leaves no residue and breaks down into water and oxygen unlike bleach and such which leave residue behind. If you want to go with just the h202 then you'll have to add more every 72 hours or so.

One more thing, please be careful with the food grade h202 29% as it'll eat your skin off and bleach your skin pure white like a snowflake. Wear gloves!

I think im converted.
I made a mistake last grow useing a clear plastic tube from my bucket and it let the light in but iv learnt a lesson and i think im going for the sterile way of hydro....thanks

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

You won't look back my friend. You'll be SO happy you didn't go organic lol. Organics are great for soil, so are beneficials and fungi and so on but hydro needs to be CLEAN. You'll enjoy not having to clean up as much as well as more margin of error if you do let light in your res or let leaves sit in there etc. Just try to keep the res light proof and free of anything organic that can break down...usually leaves and things that fall. Good luck!

Hi again.

Im definitely going down the sterile road after a bit more read up but someone said that you can use good 100% bleach? Not the lemon or blue stuff just pure bleach ( o.5 ml/g ) every 2-3 days ?

Iv done abit of reading on it and people have been telling me bleach is chlorine and say plants actually uptake chlorine?....... Is this true.?


The thing is i go on other hydro forums but the answers to some of my questions can quickly get drowned by just general forum chit chat and jokes.lol.

This is why i came to a smaller more professional site with alittle more maturity ( i think lol )........ Im just on the fence about the bleach as to whether its true or my fellow forum buddies are just messing with me.lol.....im thinking its good to go with bleach ??.

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

Very good! You've been reading up. Now here's the problem with bleach, it can be used but it's not 100% pure bleach and it has "things", other chemicals, in it that result in a residue. Pool shock or pool chlorine is far superior and actually made for this perfectly, think no green algae in your pool as long as you chlorine it and that's what we're going for here. Pool chlorine is easy to get and SUPER cheap, a small bag treats thousands of gallons and that's essentially what DutchMaster's Zone is only it's specially made for hydroponics and for plants but pool chlorine will work.

I'm sure there are many people for and against this method, for people who want the absolute maximum harvest they suck it up and go with beni's and go through the pain of cleaning. For people who would rather have a 100% harvest rate at 85% of what they'd get with beni's they do the sterile method. So beni's are better in the end as far as production goes but more expensive and painful to buy and clean up after and if you mess up can result in major root issues and you lose your crops so...100% crop rate at 85% max yield or 85% crop rate at 100% max yield at a higher cost. The choice is easy in my mind plus I dont like cleaning up all the gunk lol...

So its the pool chlorine i need ...... Any idea how much id use for 30 ltr res and how often ?

[oTOMMYo]

Is this what i need ? Its says something about unstabilized and stabilized chlorine?

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

Hello oTOMMYo,
There are so many points here I wont be able to cover them all. But bottom line Unless you want to experience problems I wouldn't put much stock in the advice of someone that apparently believes everything a product manufacture tells them.

First, I don't believe in information from product manufactures or sellers. There is only one reason they write or post anything, and that is simply all designed around promoting products they have to sell you. There isn't any, or very little truth in what they tell you. They don't care about anything but selling you products. I sent you plenty of articles whiten by actual EXPERTS. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine read the articles I sent you and decide for yourself.

Second, While there is some truth to the points helloman1976 has mentioned. They are way out of context and not the whole truth. As an example: Yes, you can kill microbes with H2O2, but you can easily kill your plants as well. In order to kill ALL of the microbes in your nutrient solution you would need to use so much you kill your plants as well. Again I ask you to read the articles from real EXPERTS that I sent you. You wont find that any of them recommend using H2O2, bleach, fungicides etc. for any other reason but damage control when there is no other choice, or sanitizing the systems between grows. And there is a very good reason for that. It's the same reason that chemotherapy is a last resort. Chemotherapy can be effective in killing caner, but you can kill yourself in the process.

Third, the descriptions of smelly, dirty and slimy nutrient solutions described by helloman1976, are only the result of using the wrong type of microbes, and/or using them incorrectly. While I do agree there is no benefit to trying to grow organically using hydroponics, there is a huge difference between growing organically and using beneficial microbes in hydroponic systems. Understanding what your doing is the difference. Again, I sent you plenty of information on both written by experts for you to not only know the difference, but also be able do either correctly.

Fourth, I don't know of one commercial operation that actually uses H2O2 or bleach in their hydroponic systems (other than sanitize the system between grows). That is just manufactures propaganda to get you to buy their products. When used correctly, beneficial microbe are 10 times cheaper to use than bleach or H2O2 in hydroponic systems. I've already told you a little goes a long way. Once inoculated, you don't need to continue inoculating if you know what your doing. In fact doing so only causes problems. Again you have plenty of reading material written by experts (not product manufactures) to decide.

P.S.
Yes, it is true that chlorine is a plant nutrient, but your nutrient solution is a balanced nutrient and already has enough in it. Anything more than and the level of it raises to TOXIC levels.

iv seen product called pool zone its calcium hyfrodrite?<< something like that..... I think that would work? Right ?

[oTOMMYo]

Ok guys i see what's happened here .....ok gpsfrontier thanks for your info on the bennies its all good and correct .
Helloman1937 your info on the sterile way is also good and correct(ish) but by the sound of your conversation with gpsfrontier on another thread im sorry to say you don't know what your really doing < do offense meant .

But iv done my research and i can and many many other people do use calcium hydrodrite ( pool zone chlorine ) for many years with great results ( also there water temps are low for the best dissolvable oxygen results).

So i think the reason hellomam1937 doesn't like bennies and all the mess they produce is because you haven't been doing it right ( everybody makes mistakes).

But i can see both arguments with bennies or sterile.

Helloman1937........figure out your own growing problems before you help others.....just saying mate.


Ps i think your water temps are to high....your temp range is good for bennies not sterile. .....peace you two.

[oTOMMYo]

Originally Posted by helloman1976

No offense taken my friend, there are several methods of doing hydroponics and I've been doing them all for about a little over ten years now. I see people on forums claim all kinds of things and pull out all kinds of articles and will argue your advice until they are blue in the face but what you will find is these people read a lot but don't grow a lot of anything so they really don't know anything more than what they've read. That's where a lot of us started and those of us who have been doing this for a long time are used to these types and are used to bad apples on the forums. You need to learn how to do hydroponics the right way, the sterile way and organics and soil with beni's and fungi and so on and keep it that way. I would encourage you to try it every other way and that way you'll know for yourself and know who really knows what is going on and who doesn't. Good luck.

If you've been doing hydro for 10 years why start a " iv got a slime problem" thread ? I don't understand ?

[GpsFrontier]

Hello Tommy,
I forgot to mention in my private message even though I don't really think it would be worth it, or even necessary in a small system. If you still want to kill any microorganisms in your nutrient solutions, I would suggest you look into UV light treatment. The practice has been around for well over 50 years, and is used to sanitize well water. UV light treatments are how commercial hydroponic growers control things, and because the light doesn't touch your plants, it will never harm the plants at all. I think I have seen small units online for around $40-$60. I plan to build my own after I have my commercial greenhouse up and running. It also wont kill beneficial microbes in the growing media either, simply because the light treatment never touches the growing media or roots to be able to do so. So you get the best of both worlds.

Here is an example of a UV light treatment unit:
AquaTop In-Line UV Sterilizer 10W - IL10UV

Not bad, 211 GPH max flow for under $40. Actually for that price, I wont build my own, I would just get some like those. My greenhouse has 3, 275 gallon reservoir's.