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  #41  
Old 01-22-2010, 09:15 PM
Amigatec Amigatec is offline
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The other thing I was worried about was to much pressure on the drip lines unless you use a very small pump. I plan on buying another Eco 264GPH pump for this.

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  #42  
Old 01-22-2010, 09:38 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I was thinking on this again, and the way to fix that would be to add a T and valve to the line coming from the top on the pump and run some of the water back to the top res. You could use the valve to regulate the flow to the drip lines. Just make sure the return line is above the water level so it doesn't back flow and overfill the bottom res.
Ya, I was thinking about using the "T" also last night as well. I was concerned with the water level in the bottom reservoir, because I'm not sure how much room you have to play with. Depending on how many plants you are running it to, as well as the growing medium soaking it in before it becomes saturated and makes its way back to the reservoir. It would be quite possible for the pump to run dry.

Again, I have not looked at possible materials, so I would need to make sure that the simple float will be able to allow enough water to go through it while being gravity feed. They usually have about a 1/4 inch inlet I believe, and that is usually meant to be pressure feed from the pluming lines that have about 90 psi in it. It would be quite possible that between the drip system and the "T" to the top reservoir, the growing medium soaking it up, that the pump would pump it out faster than the float can replace it.

I'm not sure how much space you have between the water line and the growing medium either. So I would assume there's not much space to play with. After the dippers stop dripping, most of the water the growing medium has soaked in will slowly drip down back to the reservoir. Making the water level in the reservoir rise, even after the float valve shuts off. Of coarse how much depends on how much you are using as well as what kind. If the water level rises too much and reaches the growing medium from the bottom, the roots wont be well drained and probably have rot as well as become diseasesed.

I don't know what line you are using for the drip lines, but I do know that the drip line from Home Depot for landscaping is designed for the pluming water pressure. At our house it is set at 90 psi (I have replaced the valve before), the city water to the house is over 110 psi. I don't think that would be any problem at all. In fact you will probably run into the opposite problem. With every hole/dipper you place in the line the pressure will drop.
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  #43  
Old 01-22-2010, 09:44 PM
Amigatec Amigatec is offline
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Like I say with the valve I may be able to control the water return, I can buy either a 1/4" or 3/4" valve to use in the lower res. I know the 3/4 would be big enough.
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  #44  
Old 01-23-2010, 12:38 AM
txice txice is offline
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Yes I saw this as a problem from the start although you mentioned building a more permanent home for your plants in the beginning, but I was not exactly sure what that meant.
I didn't really have anything specific in mind. First shot at growing food, first shot at trying hydroponics...I'm just sort of in test and learn mode. I still have multiple of some plants and plan to thin the numbers by removing the duplicates. As I determine whether or not i even like the peppers the plants are producing, I'll probably thin some more. So that will take care of a little of the space issue in itself. Got the DWC system working, have the aeroponic/dwc hybrid working....setup and am trying a drip/nft tube system as well. Still haven't found that one setup that has hit me as "OMG this is the perfect system to use from here on out" type of thing yet. Still just playing around and trying different things as I go along.
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2010, 02:12 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Still haven't found that one setup that has hit me as "OMG this is the perfect system to use from here on out" type of thing yet.
Not sure if I mentioned it to you or if it's something you can use, but I like this setup for peppers myself (picture attached).
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  #46  
Old 01-23-2010, 02:38 PM
txice txice is offline
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I've seen the plans for that type of system several places and I've seen a lot of articles and posts about people using it as well. I like the system idea in general, the only thing that worries me about it would be root management. Unless you had plans to regularly trim the roots I could imagine the roots grown down into the "neck" at the bottom of the bottles and potentially clogging them as well wouldn't you think?
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  #47  
Old 01-23-2010, 06:23 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I've seen the plans for that type of system several places and I've seen a lot of articles and posts about people using it as well. I like the system idea in general, the only thing that worries me about it would be root management. Unless you had plans to regularly trim the roots I could imagine the roots grown down into the "neck" at the bottom of the bottles and potentially clogging them as well wouldn't you think?
Yes the roots will do that with a plant that size, although with my design this can be taken care of 2 different ways. The first one is, my new design for the bottles that makes them much more sturdy and reusable. This also makes it easier to insert a removable container/basket into them. The other one is, they are simply not glued to the tubing part of the system, this allows you to just lift the bottle off and trim any roots (while the system is not flooded of coarse).

You wont be able to remove the peppers from the 3 inch baskets to place them into anything else or you will tear the roots off (something I was worried about in the beginning). But you could make a cap for my new bottle design, then place the 3 inch baskets into it. Also lifting the caps instead of the baskets will cut down root damage from the edge of the holes, due to sliding the baskets in and out.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2010, 06:55 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default root trimming

I've never had aissue with just trimming roots like giving a hair cut. if i get to many roots in a bucket i just scirror them back like foilage. i dont think dirt guys can ever do this but in hydro I have had good luck with the plants this way. seems i read that if you cut the root it splits the tip into two tap roots. must be like trimming the tips of a plant to get two tops.
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  #49  
Old 01-25-2010, 07:06 PM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default plant video

YouTube - JANUARY 25TH GROW ROOM UPDATE

i just add this video of a few of my plants. i'll get some more video of the rest soon. i just started a time lapse video of a tomatoe plant we trimmed way back and removed the sucker branches as there called. My friend thinks taht this will make the plants much bigger producers. i personnaly cant imagine this being true cutting off all its leafs, maybe in the fall when the light is very low and your trying to beat the frost. any how its pictures every 60 seconds. i'll do a few days of this. then i am going to switch to a flower and time lapse a tomatoe developing.

how can we start a thread just for pictures and video, i know its growtronix feature but you can down load a free software for doing it and us aweb cam so any one can do video or time shots
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  #50  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:38 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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we trimmed way back and removed the sucker branches as there called. My friend thinks taht this will make the plants much bigger producers.
Personally I would never do this myself. I grew tomato's ever year in Calif. (in soil), and every branch that grew out produced tomato's. As far as I am concerned timing the suckers as they call them only controls the size and shape of the plant. I built a box trellis out of 2x4's cut into long strips (1x1's) stuck them in the ground and tied them all together in a box shape around the plants. Then tied string all around it to further support the plant branches.

These tomato plants got 10+ feet tall before the tops started to fall over, only because they couldn't grow more than about 3 feet taller than the trellis. As they fell over and grew down I had to trim them or I wouldn't be able to walk on the pathway between the plants and the garage. Every branch had tomato's, even the so called suckers. I think they are only suckers until they have tomatoes on them. It was only a small piece of dirt (10 feet by 4 feet) with 6 plants, but it supplied us and our next door neighbors (we lived in condos, it was their dirt also) with all the tomato's we wanted. We were even giving them away to the other neighbors.

I haven't had a fried green tomato sense Calif, they don't sell green ones in the stores here in AZ. I am going to start tomato's in hydro soon but I will be dealing with the high summer heat. The ground here sucks and wont grow much of anything but cactus, and it takes a small bulldozer to gig it up.
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how can we start a thread just for pictures and video, i know its growtronix feature but you can down load a free software for doing it and us aweb cam so any one can do video or time shots
The best way is to start a thread in the "Your Hydroponics Setup" about your system and post the pictures there. Then you can update new pictures as you wish. That way people can see the progress. You can also post a link to your live cam or videos in the thread. You can also create an album of pictures to this forum by clicking on the 'Hydroponic pictures" link at the top of all the pages, and at the bottom click "add album". These are the random images that are shown at the top of the main page.
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  #51  
Old 01-27-2010, 04:27 PM
TTRgreen2010 TTRgreen2010 is offline
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Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
Personally I would never do this myself. I grew tomato's ever year in Calif. (in soil), and every branch that grew out produced tomato's. As far as I am concerned timing the suckers as they call them only controls the size and shape of the plant. I built a box trellis out of 2x4's cut into long strips (1x1's) stuck them in the ground and tied them all together in a box shape around the plants. Then tied string all around it to further support the plant branches.

These tomato plants got 10+ feet tall before the tops started to fall over, only because they couldn't grow more than about 3 feet taller than the trellis. As they fell over and grew down I had to trim them or I wouldn't be able to walk on the pathway between the plants and the garage. Every branch had tomato's, even the so called suckers. I think they are only suckers until they have tomatoes on them.
I've read that you certainly can leave the suckers on the plant but that the tomatoes will not grow as large as if you prune. Did this happen in your situation?

Personally, I think I'd rather have many medium size tomatoes instead of only a few large ones.
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  #52  
Old 01-27-2010, 06:33 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I've read that you certainly can leave the suckers on the plant but that the tomatoes will not grow as large as if you prune. Did this happen in your situation?

Personally, I think I'd rather have many medium size tomatoes instead of only a few large ones.
Well I never did any testing to see if there was a difference in the tomato's size between pruned plants and non pruned plants growing in the same conditions. They did vary in size of coarse, but not drastically and I don't ever remember even thinking that they were smaller than they should be. We also did get ones that were huge, like the large beefsteak tomato's. I usually used those for making salsa or tomato sauce, because I don't like saving a cut tomato's. You can cut a few slices for salads or sandwiches, but as soon as you cut into them the juices start to flow, and if you don't use them right away the leftover would tend to go to waist. Bottom line we didn't get abnormally small tomato's.

Also I left them on the plant to ripen (not like in the stores), really ripen (blood red) and just starting to soften, unless I wanted to fry a green one. There is a huge difference in taste between what they call vine ripened, and what is really vine ripened. That difference can only be experienced, not explained. The green ones need to be completely green to get the best taste (even inside), and you cant really tell unless you cut into it. The slightest red color ruins the taste for fried green tomato's. It's almost like a tomiteo, I have fried them also.

I used the same soil year after year, but skimmed off the top 3-5 inches. Then tilled the rest, mixed in manure, potting soil and peat moss. Then about once a week or so I would water them with miracle gro. The only problem I had was getting to all the tomato's when the plants were so big. I had to kind of dig through all the branches to get to the ones deep inside. Those seemed to ripen fine also in the complete shade from all the leaves and branches. The repining may have been delayed for the ones in complete shade I don't know, there were so many tomato's that were ripe to choose from that it didn't mater. Also these plants were in between two garages (ours and our neighbors), and the garages blocked most of the direct sunlight. They only got about 4 hours of direct sunlight at mid day during the summer.
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  #53  
Old 01-27-2010, 08:27 PM
GGM GGM is offline
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"Also I left them on the plant to ripen (not like in the stores)|

Many brought Tomatoes are picked green and gassed with ethylene so they keep longer, thats why they taste like crap.
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  #54  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Pruning and "training" of tomatoes in hydro is systematically done for several reasons by commercial growers.

1. Less foliage sweats- and consumes less water (nutrients)
2. Most of the foliage, except the parts that are close to the clusters is actually not needed by the plant (in terms of nutrient reserves).
3. Less foliages permits better control and easier care, as well as better overview of plant ripening.
4. Pruned plants are better aerated, easier cooled and less prone to wilt, fungus and disease.
5. Pruned plants with less foliage are less heavy and need less support in the growing and blooming stage.
6. If using artificial light, it is more efficient with partially pruned foliage.
7. Most indeterminate tomato varieties get trained to only grow two branches with 4-5(+) clusters at each branch. This is what has been found to be most productive in relation to a short or medium growing period.
8. If hyperfed in a optimized green house environment they' would just sprout and expand dramatically and exponentially to some jungle, if not pruned properly and regularly. The secondary effect would be irregular sized fruits and huge variety in ripening time. Both outcomes are not wanted with commercial purposes.

PS: some varieties may require different pruning, or will even do better without any- or much pruning. Determinate tomato varieties and wild species are less often pruned, or they are trained in a different way.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:43 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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1. Less foliage sweats- and consumes less water (nutrients)
Absolutely, with less plant, there is less uptake of water and nutrients with any plant. The bigger they get, the more they need to sustain themselves.
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2. Most of the foliage, except the parts that are close to the clusters is actually not needed by the plant (in terms of nutrient reserves).
I could be wrong, but I don't think "reserves" is really the right term because plants don't store nutrients or energy like a battery does. They use it and convert it as they go.
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3. Less foliages permits better control and easier care, as well as better overview of plant ripening.
This is the main reason I believe commercial operations prune the plants. They can and will grow out of control if given the opportunity. With a large number of plants to take care of and pick, not pruning them to at least some extent would be extremely difficult and time consuming as well as labor intensive. That would cost them more money in the long run.
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4. Pruned plants are better aerated, easier cooled and less prone to wilt, fungus and disease.
With a large number of plants this would also be true. Although with only a few plants would hardly be necessary because they are much easier to care for. To get the same amount of produce that you would off a un-pruned tomato plant you would need many more pruned plants. Starting them from seeds, they are vertically free and commercial operations have a rotating supply of replacement plants, so they are not concerned with getting as much produce off each plant as they can. They just clear it and replace it. They have enough plants growing in different stages all at the same time, so that they always have enough plants ripening (well what they call ripening anyway) to ship to their customers. Basically pruning tomato plants in commercial operations reduces labor costs.
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5. Pruned plants with less foliage are less heavy and need less support in the growing and blooming stage.
Again, with a large number of plants like commercial operations this would be a problem, but with only a few plants this is easy to take care of.
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6. If using artificial light, it is more efficient with partially pruned foliage.
Absolutely true, pruning the tomato plants will allow better lighting to the plants. Although most commercial operations growing tomato's use natural light inside greenhouses, except in winter when they use artificial light to suppliant the natural light.
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The secondary effect would be irregular sized fruits and huge variety in ripening time. Both outcomes are not wanted with commercial purposes.
Not irregular, just not all the same exact size (that the society demands). As for the variety in ripening time, yes simply because the later flowers will ripen later. When keeping the plant from growing bigger by pruning, you keep it from producing more flowers/fruit also. By keeping the plant smaller and the fruit all ripening at relativity the same time, you can easily clear the foliage and replace it with a replacement plant to begin again. This isn't a problem for commercial operations. But you will need to have many plants, all in different stages of growth. Unless you want to eat all your tomato's at the same time, then wait to grow a whole new plant.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:54 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default this sucks

Well i'm not producing fruit yet on the plant but i can tell you the trimmed plant has a much slower rate of growth than the un trimmed plants buy quite a bit. So as far as plant growth so far the trimming method is a bad idea. will see when fruit arrives.

i plan on weighing the fruit from the other plants and averaging the plants together and then sending the bill for the missing extra tomatoes to my buddy. what are tomoatoes going for a lb. that are home grown in january and ripened on the vine.

I cant believe how many videos on you tube show (pro gardeners) trimming plants back that dont even have fruit yet. My guess is they have no idea what there really doing most of the time.

Next knuckle head that picks up scirrors in my green room needs to leave a deposit on the crop. Its like installing a huge solar array on your home and the neighbor coming over and saying you know you'll get more power if we cut off those sucker panles you have installed on that side of the roof. here let me get those for you were are the wire cutters will just snipp those nasty extra sucker panels right out of there. there just stealing power from the rest of your panels that are closer to the breaker box.

The of course they go into the BS of this si how they always dot it. and there uncles nephews best freinds neighbor develpoed the idea during the winter in the artic under a bic lighter and in his tent. He didnt make it but they said the sled dogs enjoyed some nice rare steaks with there sald tomatoes that winter.

Then to top off my agany of my plant being brutalized some dirt dummy says first thing out of his mouth. better put some miracle grow on it and some rotting fish guts that fixes them right up.

What i dont understand is i thought natural sunlight and fresh out doors is suppose to help these people.
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  #57  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:05 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Originally Posted by GpsFrontier View Post
I could be wrong, but I don't think "reserves" is really the right term because plants don't store nutrients or energy like a battery does. They use it and convert it as they go.
You are wrong, plants do stock elements and trace elements in foliage and stems. That's why there is a classification of elements in mobile, intermediate and immobile. That's also the reason why some plants show chlorosis in leaves during fruiting stage. Different elements move from "useless" older leaves to other vital parts, especially if there is deficiency or shortage.

Calling it Irregular or "not the exact size" really depends on the variety. In case you deal with a variety that has been selected for growing nearly calibrated size, they will not vary that much and you may call it "not the exact size" or not the same calibre. Other varieties will in fact produce what one can call irregular fruit sizes under described conditions. Quite futile anyway...

I suppose anyone can draw his/her own conclusions from the other information and apply what may be transfered to his/her own way and volume of cultivation, - and ignore or drop what is more specific and suitable for larger commercial production only. Keep in mind that what is used in commercial and large volume production is often the result of long trial and error. And most importantly: people who get payed for their job have more discipline and do not contradict the boss for every small matter
Btw: can you do me a vavour GPS? Can you try to not overdoing it with quoting everything and breaking every single point down into its constituents, and actually commenting with nearly the same meaning, just expressed in a slightly different way. Normally and modrately used, it's just fine and practical, - but good things should be used sparingly, as the say....

Don't get me wrong here, but using other peoples contribution as a peg to hang your opinion on it, can be seen as impolite if used that systematically and exaggeratedly. To be honest it starts to disturb me a lot.

This isn't something I am expecting to get certified by overwhelming consensus, it's just a personal favour I am asking for. You may think that it's impolite from my part to tell this - but what other choice do I have?

Last edited by Luches; 01-28-2010 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:00 AM
watercatwn6535nd watercatwn6535nd is offline
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Default lol

I use to power a led from a lemon. I thought you could do it with a potato to?

i dont sweat the details on the info. in my world i'm a god when it comes to growing and when i see you guys i know my knuckles are still dragging across the ground when i walk.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:38 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Calling it Irregular or "not the exact size" really depends on the variety. In case you deal with a variety that has been selected for growing nearly calibrated size, they will not vary that much and you may call it "not the exact size" or not the same calibre. Other varieties will in fact produce what one can call irregular fruit sizes under described conditions. Quite futile anyway...
There was no variety specified, nor was there a size specified. To be irregular there would need to be a regular to be "Ir" from. Some tomato plants are bred to be uniformed size, but very few of them do home gardeners ever grow. Someone might get the idea from your post that there was something wrong with their plant or the way they were growing them if they were not all the same size. An irregular shirt is deformed, there is something wrong with the way it was manufactured. Just because they are not all the same size does not mean that there is anything wrong with the tomato's or the plant.
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I suppose anyone can draw his/her own conclusions from the other information and apply what may be transfered to his/her own way and volume of cultivation, - and ignore or drop what is more specific and suitable for larger commercial production only. Keep in mind that what is used in commercial and large volume production is often the result of long trial and error. And most importantly: people who get payed for their job have more discipline and do not contradict the boss for every small matter
Thank you for allowing me to have my own conclusions, even though you have not paid me for them. I do have all the discipline I need even if you feel you are the Boss (you haven't sent me a check yet, Boss).
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can you do me a vavour GPS?
I only do vavours for people who I have respect for, not people who demand respect (remember).
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Can you try to not overdoing it with quoting everything and breaking every single point down into its constituents,
Quoting the exact part you are responding to is the best way for others to know what exactly that response is to.
Quote:
and actually commenting with nearly the same meaning, just expressed in a slightly different way.
I was elaborating on each point because I felt that a little explanation would be helpful to people in making their own decisions.
Quote:
Don't get me wrong here, but using other peoples contribution as a peg to hang your opinion on it, can be seen as impolite if used that systematically and exaggeratedly. To be honest it starts to disturb me a lot.
The world is full of opinions, even if you don't like or agree with them. And just because you might not agree with them does not automatically make your opinions fact, even if you think they are.
Quote:
This isn't something I am expecting to get certified by overwhelming consensus, it's just a personal favour I am asking for. You may think that it's impolite from my part to tell this - but what other choice do I have?
I don't think it's impolite toward me at all, I am perfectly willing to explain my actions if necessary. As well as the reasons, or thinking behind what I post. Unlike some people who feel that their posts should not be questioned, and should just be taken as fact, and the all final word. I do however feel that getting off topic does not help people looking for, or wanting to share information. As far as any favors, there are many past issues I won't be able to forget. As someone once said "that's just my sense of humor" if I remember correctly. I try to work well and play nice with others, but respect needs to go both ways or it won't work. You, Me or anyone else can't get offended every time someone has something different to say, that's what makes the world go around. You just put in your 2 cents, take what you can use, and leave the rest. Getting back to the subject's of the thread would be a nice change.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:22 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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I wasn't asking for respect, or for anything of the sort - you simply do not need to quote and comment every single sentence I type. Especially if you don't know for sure, rash in assumption or simply anticipate wrongly. Is that really asking too much? Don't you see by yourself that you are mostly wrong with your keen guesswork?

You really like to chat, with or without respect, with or without knowlegde - I leave you that. If it doesn't fit, you can always bend it until it does. But not me. I guess I'll simply write even less then, which is the only option I have left to not be part of such mania

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