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Hydroponic at 45-50 degree celcious


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Old 04-21-2010, 05:25 AM
instructkamal instructkamal is offline
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Default Hydroponic at 45-50 degree celcious

Hello all

I have recently start learning about hyderoponic . I want to setup a facility in my area but i'm curious since in my area in summer temperature goes till 35-50 degree celcious , or say 90-120 Fahrenheit . Is that a good option. and what kind of vegetable or crop i should go for . I was thinking about tomato and strawberry but it seems that they can't live on that heigh temperature. Please somebody suggest something

Thanks

KP

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Old 04-21-2010, 09:20 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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I will be able to answer your question in a few months time First summer I am growing hydroponically in the country I am currently living, I did grow tomatoes and peppers in containers last year, lots of water and they struggled during the hottest parts ofthe day.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:27 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by instructkamal View Post
Hello all

I have recently start learning about hyderoponic . I want to setup a facility in my area but i'm curious since in my area in summer temperature goes till 35-50 degree celcious , or say 90-120 Fahrenheit . Is that a good option. and what kind of vegetable or crop i should go for . I was thinking about tomato and strawberry but it seems that they can't live on that heigh temperature. Please somebody suggest something

Thanks

KP
Tomato's generally like warm weather, 120F is a bit high but may still work fine, especially if you use heat tolerant variety's and place them where they get shade in the hottest part of the day. I live in the desert where the summer temps reach over 120F every day starting late June-early July. I had strawberry's growing last summer, but I pulled the plug on them in early July because I was unable to keep the nutrient solution temp under control. But I had hundreds of flowers on 32 strawberry plants at that time, with berry's as well. I had a shade cloth structure covering them to help protect from the direct sunlight. Though you will probably get smaller berry's with the higher air temp than you would in cooler temps. You will need to cool the berry's down quickly once picked, or they wont last long at all. Like sticking them in the freezer right away for 15-20 minutes before sticking them into the refrigerator.

Peppers do well in the heat, I think just about all variety's of them. I had some growing last summer but I had the same problem with controlling the nutrient temp with them as well, so I pulled the plug on them for the same reason. For me, the nutrient temp is my biggest issue in the summer. I have some honeydew melons seeds started that I plan to try this summer. I will place them on the side of the house where it gets shade in the hottest part of the day (afternoon-evening). Make sure you keep the nutrient solution temp at or below 72F or the plants will suffer.

I will build a geothermal reservoir for the nutrients. I will be building a insulated box-trench to contain the growing medium and roots. As well as a insulated top for the box with the plants sticking up through it (removable without hurting the plants). I hope to even paint the outside with white roofing insulation for even more protection. It will be a drip system with all the above ground lines insulated with pipe insulation. That should keep the root zone cool.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:46 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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@instructkamal,

Think seasonal as it is the first rule with such hot climate. Grow your long term crops including tomatoes and strawberries in winter and early spring and in the hottest month more heat tolerant and short term vegetables.

With the big heat you have to adopt, as it will not to you or your plants. Either you grow heat resistant vegetables only or you grow what you want, BUT lower the temperatures with cooling systems in a more closed environment like a cooled greenhouse, cooled nutrients, etc which is always more expensive and energy consuming. Or you can make a break for 2-3 month with limited and resistant plants during the hottest time - than you don't have to "pull the plug" on anything.

My hint: work out a seasonal strategy and stick to it.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:19 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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If your concerned with the 120F temperatures I assume you are planing on growing outside. I am not sure what your winter time temps get, but here it gets into the 30'sF. I don't think you will have much luck with tomato's in and around those temps. The cold was too much for mine (along with another problem). I had a plan to cover them and heat the inside at night, but I never had the money to complete it. You may be able to find cold tolerant variety's, but tomato's mostly like and do better in warm weather.

Cooling in the summertime is and can be expensive, that's why I like the idea of using "geothermal energy" (free energy) to cool the nutrient solutions. I didn't really have that option last summer. I recently built a geothermal reservoir for my tomatoes that only cost me $30-$35 for a 20 gallon reservoir. I plan on building the same one for my melons.
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:36 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Obviously each and everyone has to consider his/her own climate and seasonal temperatures and changes. If you are at the equator you have almost the very same climate and temperatures with only minor changes (28-32C) all year round. In more "desert-like" or mountainous regions, you got these extreme changes in temperatures. In other more northernm but still tropical or sub tropical regions you got very hot and short summers, an extended monsoon season and a relatively short cool or moderate season.

Maybe instructkamal simply tells us where the actual location is and what the yearly temperatures and the climate actually is, - before we get into a purely subjective debate on principles that do not apply at that end

I am in fact consulting with a colleague in Pakistan at the moment who has developed a heat resistant tomato hybrid and yet faces serious BER problems from 30C upwards. And here we are talking commercial growing according to high seasonal market prices, that at least legitimates the effort and the extravagance that is done here.

Especially for beginners and people who have more seasonal flexibility, I STRONGLY recommend to respect the seasonal climate if only they can. Simply avoid planting such heat sensitive plants like tomato and strawberries during the hottest months (like everyone else in the region does), because climatic conditions are clearly unfavorable.

Even if cooling down your nutrients by any means there are or you may have at your disposal, the air temperatures may still prevent blooming or proper fruit setting with these. You can always go against all odds and "pull the plug" when it goes wrong again for the second or even third time, - but how smart is that at the end?!

Last edited by Luches; 04-22-2010 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:02 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Maybe instructkamal simply tells us where the actual location is and what the yearly temperatures and the climate actually is, - before we get into a purely subjective debate on principles that do not apply at that end
You should not assume that there is only going to be one person who reads the post. So specif and exact conditions are helpful with decisions, but other people want to apply the information to there exact conditions also. Subjective debate is the point, not just principles that are only useful to one person.
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from 30C upwards. And here we are talking commercial growing according to high seasonal market prices, that at least legitimates the effort and the extravagance that is done here.
Not for the home hydroponic guarder, and especially the beginner. As mentioned there are ways to keep them warm, and there are ways to keep them cool if one wants to take that on. But most first time people don't really want to try and do that (again there is more than one person reading this thread).
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Especially for beginners and people who have more seasonal flexibility, I STRONGLY recommend to respect the seasonal climate if only they can. Simply avoid planting such heat sensitive plants like tomato and strawberries during the hottest months (like everyone else in the region does), because climatic conditions are clearly unfavorable.
I don't know where you get your tomato plants from, but mine are not nearly as heat sensitive as yours are. I grew them in soil successfully all summer long in California where we had weeks of over 100F degree days. They were not even heat tolerant varieties. Strawberry's as well, but they didn't get enough sunlight being so close to the ground in that location. But yes it is best to grow seasonal plants, when growing outside in the natural climate. Talking to local nursery's will help with those decisions.

But the conditions don't need to be 100% perfect, they never are, and both tomato's and strawberry's grew well for me in 100 degree heat. Even though strawberry's are generally considered cool weather crops (from what I understand) but they grew well for me in our 120 degree days here (under shade cloth) even so. Even our local farms in southern Calif were growing strawberry's in 100 degree weather, so I was just doing "like everyone else in the region does." They sell strawberry plants here in the desert (the ones I grew) in late spring, they wouldn't be doing that if they weren't expected to survive into the summer.

The only reason I pulled the plug was because of the 90 degree nutrient solution temperatures. Adding ice was helpful but I wasn't able to make enough to cool down 40 gallons twice a day when the outside air temp got into the 120 degree range. Even if I could, it wouldn't stay within the low 70's for more than a few hours. It was just to hot to spend all day digging the required dirt (rock), not to mention I had no money what so ever to buy what I needed to build the geothermal reservoir. I would (and will) do it again in a hart beat as long as I can keep the nutrient temp down efficiently.
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the air temperatures may still prevent blooming or proper fruit setting with these.
Fruit setting was not a problem for me, but as I mentioned you may get smaller berry's because of the high air temp. Also when there are many berry's on one stem. But as long as you are not expecting the largest berry's, and are willing to do some trial and error it's completely doable. That at least legitimates the effort
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You can always go against all odds and "pull the plug" when it goes wrong again for the second or even third time, - but how smart is that at the end?!
Learning from the experience is invaluable for anything, without doing so you wont ever be able to fix the problems. Not even trying is the real problem. In the end that's the only way to learn, and in turn is invaluable for those who want to learn, rather than just being told what to do like a sheep.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:03 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Seasonal planting applies for most crops and around the world, it has always been and still is what experienced and smart people do locally. It's part of what is called adapting and "collaborating" with nature.

We are talking 45-50 C here, - that's up to 122 Fahrenheit right?
For the sake of it, be reasonable and realistic and forget about contradicting me for one time!

No way to talk around or giving analogies from other cases that will certainly not apply here. No expert would ever recommend growing strawberries or tomato in soil or in hydroponics under temperatures reaching 122 Fahrenheit, or agree to install what ever it takes to lower temperatures to fit the crops. For beginners and amateurs that haven't the toolset and experience, it would certainly end up in a waste of time and some kind or the other of disaster .

You can always install and build whatever it takes to "fight nature"- IF you can and want to go down that road by all means. But in some cases like this, the price (in a large sense) would be much to high. In small scale it wouldn't be reasonable and rentable anyway - and big scale would only be justified and rentable when expected market value/price would truly justify the work, the technical means and the total investment.

In some cases not even trying is the problem, but in many others trying the impossible and irrational becomes even a bigger problem ;-)

The sheep is the one who follows blindly and listens to what is told easily - while the Black Sheep is the one who principally doesn't listen to anyone and doesn't ever admit any error. It does strictly everything his/her own way even if a thousand experts and 2000 specialists are making the contrary more than obvious, even if the whole family and all friends say differently. This kind of sheep can't see further than the end of its nose, I believe.

Last edited by Luches; 04-22-2010 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:59 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Seasonal planting applies for most crops and around the world, it has always been and still is what experienced and smart people do locally. It's part of what is called adapting and "collaborating" with nature.
Well it works for stupid people also. I have been there and done that. I guess your saying that I am lying, (well tough). I have my experiences even if you don't like them. You think you are the only smart person on the planet? If you want to trade insults I will be happy to ablidge, I can do that well and have fun with it.
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We are talking 45-50 C here, - that's up to 122 Fahrenheit right?
Yes that's my understanding, by the way that's the exact temperatures/conditions that I live in (even up to 128 Fahrenheit) so I am well aware of them. The temperature on the day the earlier pictures I posted were taken were about 110 degrees Fahrenheit daily.
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be reasonable and realistic and forget about contradicting me for one time!
That's your problem, I have had my experiences in life, and if you don't like them why don't you have them for me. You don't need to agree with me, but you have not lived my life, and I'm not part of your congregation.
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No expert would ever recommend growing strawberries or tomato in soil or in hydroponics under temperatures reaching 122 Fahrenheit, or agree to install what ever it takes to lower temperatures to fit the crops.
Well if the experts like you (I say that laughing) would not recommend something that works, why ask an expert. I am not an expert but I have done it. So it stands to reason if the EXPERTS don't know what they are doing, and a stupid person like me can do it, an expert isn't worth that much (at least the ones you know).
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You can always install and build whatever it takes to "fight nature"- IF you can and want to go down that road by all means. But in some cases like this, the price (in a large sense) would be much to high.
Yes you are right, new people just starting out are defiantly going to want to start out on a large scale, without any experience. Anyone wanting to go down that road wont be asking questions from people they don't know in some forum, and relying on those reply's.
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The sheep is the one who follows blindly and listens to what is told easily - while the Black Sheep is the one who principally doesn't listen to anyone and doesn't ever admit any error. It does strictly everything his/her own way even if a thousand experts and 2000 specialists are making the contrary more than obvious, even if the whole family and all friends say differently. This kind of sheep can't see further than the end of its nose, I believe.
So now you think you are 2000 experts all rolled into one, and you are the principal that you consider yourself the "anyone" that I and everyone else needs to just believe. I contently find mistakes, and I admit to them when I do. I never do otherwise. Some mistakes are harder to admit to than others, and even made with honest intentions. But if you are going to be honest with yourself there's no other choice, and I need to look at myself in the mirror in the morning.

I give others the benefit of the doubt, thus respect, simply because I don't know there situation, they don't know mine either. I expect the same back, and when I'm in the presence of others that are disrespected, you'll receive the same disrespect back. I have never considered myself (or said) I was an expert. I'm an honest person (even if it hurts), but I wont just believe something because one person (much less you) say I should, especially when I have already seen otherwise for myself. If I only have two choices (fallow blindly, or do my own thing regardless), then I have only one choice because I will never fallow blindly. So you will need to find another congregation member for the church of Luches.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:50 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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You are taking things too personally again, you are not very objective as usual and projecting too much on me here, suggesting pages of what I haven't ever said nor meant even remotely. That's why you can't make a difference between what is in fact well-meant and what may not...

When I make appeal to an expert opinion I am talking in general of course. Furthermore I'm just appealing to common sense, I guess... unfortunately there seems no-one around that shares it - and it's just "you and me" as usual. The actual poster most probably got already sick of the debate. No invitation for some lurking partisans to get cute or start courting with me again, though...

Well let's grab the baldie by the hair then, as you take things personally and can't be objective either anyway, no matter how I put them: Do you really recommend people growing tomato with 122-128 Fahrenheit, and implicitly tell them they need to dig out holes that are big enough to accommodate a sniper and his assistant with their weekly ration, plus half of a green house structure around, and the whole enchilada of insulation and all the other stuff that goes with one of your desert setups, - to just grow 4 tomato plants?

Goodness, the expenditure doesn't justify the outcome, no matter how. Not for amateur purposes and not for any facility expansion. And that's exactly (not more and not less) what I am talking about. And one doesn't need to have a PhD in neuro-surgery nor being any expert in any field, to question the expenditure -not even talking about the rentability.

It's all so obvious and yet you apparently can't see any of your views and ideas being actually very uncommon and in fact a prime example of an economically unbearable venture!? You said that you want to do a living of it in the near future. Have you ever made the maths of your investments (including the labor that would be needed for the expansion of those 4 plants) versus your yield or income?
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:50 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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Whats the idea behind a geothermal reservoir GpsFrontier?
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:16 AM
GGM GGM is offline
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Tomato pollen is sterile when temps hit that high (day and night), tried growing them during summer on a sheltered balcony where it was about 45 Celsius day time and 30 at night and got about 99% blossom drop, no problem with vegative growth though and started fruiting again once autumn set in. The Effect of Heat Stress on Tomato Pollen Characteristics is Associated with Changes in Carbohydrate Concentration in the Developing Anthers -- PRESSMAN et al. 90 (5): 631 -- Annals of Botany
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:26 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Right, they will not set fruits even under lower temperatures than 40C if night temperatures do not drop considerably. I have a few plants left in a NFT set under actual 39-41+C, they actually look great, - but obviously not a single fruit is nor will be setting under these conditions! If by some wonder so, I wouldn't be safe of dropping fruits or BER, though....
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:14 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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When I make appeal to an expert opinion I am talking in general of course.
Well then I guess I am a expert then under those conditions also.
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Furthermore I'm just appealing to common sense
That is exactly what I am referring to, but what is common in this country must be different than what's common in that one.
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The actual poster most probably got already sick of the debate.
That is what usually what happens when you get that way, that's what disappointing me the most. You drive off all the people who may have good information, leaving only you.
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Do you really recommend people growing tomato with 122-128
I would and am.
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either anyway, no matter how I put them: Do you really recommend people growing tomato with 122-128 Fahrenheit, and implicitly tell them they need to dig out holes that are big enough to accommodate a sniper
sniper would never be able to fit in the hole I dug, it's only 30 inches (wanted 36) deep and less than 2 feet wide. It took so much to dig because of the type of ground we have here. If I needed it deeper/bigger, I would just rent a backhoe.
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plus half of a green house structure around
I never suggested to place the greenhouse structure underground.
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and the whole enchilada of insulation and all the other stuff that goes with one of your desert setups, - to just grow 4 tomato plants?
I already did it for four tomato plants and it only cost about $100 for the whole enchilada.
As posted in this thread:
http://www.hydroponicsonline.com/for...y-tomatos.html
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Goodness, the expenditure doesn't justify the outcome, no matter how. Not for amateur purposes and not for any facility expansion. And that's exactly (not more and not less) what I am talking about. And one doesn't need to have a PhD in neuro-surgery nor being any expert in any field, to question the expenditure -not even talking about the rentability.

It's all so obvious and yet you apparently can't see any of your views and ideas being actually very uncommon and in fact a prime example of an economically unbearable venture!?
Babble, babble, babble. None of this can take away from anything I know or have done.
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You said that you want to do a living of it in the near future. Have you ever made the maths of your investments (including the labor that would be needed for the expansion of those 4 plants) versus your yield or income?
I would never make an income from 4 plants. Home gardeners are not trying to make a profit, just spend less at the market. Yes I have done a feasibility study with the SBDA concerning profitability, as well as marketability. There is no guarantees with regards to agriculture (soil or hydro), so I cant (nor can anyone else) guarantee anything. There is a verifiable market. I know what I have done (grown), I also know the hazards and hurdles for my projects in my environment for a commercial project. As well as projected yields (per plant, Highs and lows). But if there was a guaranteed everyone would be doing it.

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Whats the idea behind a geothermal reservoir GpsFrontier?
Geothermal energy is simply the transfer of heat into the ground. The ground sucks the heat out of anything placed deep enough (3-5 feet). Ever been in a cool cave in the hot summer? Geothermal is the ground, energy is the transfer of heat. Once you build it, it's free energy. The key is making maintenance easy with good contact, that's where my plans differ a little from most.
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Tomato pollen is sterile when temps hit that high (day and night), tried growing them during summer on a sheltered balcony where it was about 45 Celsius day
Sorry to hear that, I had great luck with mine. It's quite possible there were other variables involved. I would continue until I figured things out. Then you can adjust things on a larger scale if needed.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:06 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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You'd even scare a dozen "real experts" away with your quoting mania GPS and you'd also ignore a few more of their second opinions as if they couldn't be trusted anyway. Even more links with scientific facts, experiences, testimonies or what ever would come across here, wouldn't ever change your mind, right?

Sadly enough it is pointless to try to have any dialogue with you.

You are free to ignore all facts and clues that are brought to you, but that doesn't make anything of what you think ore write to any thread or question more credible, more plausible and certainly not recommendable for anyone.

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Old 04-22-2010, 05:34 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Originally Posted by Luches View Post
You'd even scare a dozen "real experts" away with your quoting mania GPS and you'd also ignore a few more of their second opinions as if they couldn't be trusted anyway. Even more links with scientific facts, experiences, testimonies or what ever would come across here, wouldn't ever change your mind, right?

Sadly enough it is pointless to try to have any dialogue with you.

You are free to ignore all facts and clues that are brought to you, but that doesn't make anything of what you think ore write to any thread or question more credible, more plausible and certainly not recommendable for anyone.
I am not afraid if any so called experts get scared, that is there problem. I have only read the title in the earlier link (I was going to bed), but there is a real difference between reading and doing. The tomato's I grew in Calif had no problem in heat. Yes that wasn't 120+ degrees Fahrenheit, but I have been living in Lake Havasu AZ for about 6 years now, in 120+ degrees Fahrenheit. People grow tomato's in raised flower beds, pots and even prepared soil beds. They do this every year successfully, and they don't seem to stop setting fruit when it gets hot.

This may be because the nursery's usually sell heat tolerant variety's here, I don't know. But the fact is they grow successfully here in our heat when taken care of. I doubt I would ever be able to read anything that can change the past. If that scares the experts, maybe they should stop being experts for a while, and try to find out what the regular people are doing that is working. Then take that information back to expert land.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Luches Luches is offline
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Do you have any backup or proof of what you are saying there?, I mean that you and others grow tomatoes regularly and successfully under 120+ degree Fahrenheit outdoors (and not in cooled/air conditioned greenhouses)?

Anything of the sort, a second opinion of some grower, a link, whatever evidence would change what you are saying from just someone pretending a thing to becoming a credible statement. Otherwise you could simply pretend just anything to defend your point - it may be true or not and others may believe it or not.

The point is: will tomatoes (and strawberries), you said peppers as well will have no problem btw, set fruits under temperatures up to and a little over 120+ Fahrenheit?!

I am still pretending fruits will not set or very very hardly, and if ever some would, there would be high danger for BER (blossom end rot) dropping off of small fruits. And if there would be just a few fruits by miracle, they would be rather pathetic in size and quality.

That is why under no circumstances (except in air conditioned greenhouses or similar facilities), I do NOT recommend to growing any tomato, strawberry and not even most peppers under temperatures up to 122 Fahrenheit or 50C. Neither in soil nor in hydroponics.

What if I'd post this topic in some other tomato, AZ or some other gardening or hydroponic forums, just to see what others may think of growing tomato, strawberry etc. under up to 50C in AZ or elsewhere?

I anyway strongly recommend to anyone interested in this or even interested in growing tomato, strawberry or else in such hot climate to get second opinions on this topic.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:28 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Do you have any backup or proof of what you are saying there?, I mean that you and others grow tomatoes regularly and successfully under 120+ degree Fahrenheit outdoors (and not in cooled/air conditioned greenhouses)?
I don't deem it necessary to take pictures and statements from my friends, co-workers etc. and have it notarized, just to prove to you or anyone else what they have grown, and what I see with my own eyes. It's very simple plant a plant, see if it grows, if it doesn't under your conditions don't do it again. Or figure out what you can do to make the conditions better and try again. What's to prove?
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I am still pretending fruits will not set or very very hardly, and if ever some would, there would be high danger for BER (blossom end rot) dropping off of small fruits. And if there would be just a few fruits by miracle, they would be rather pathetic in size and quality.
Good for you! If you don't mind (I don't really care if you do) I think will try anyway. I have already made mention to the size and quality issue, and I never said that they wouldn't grow better in s cooler climate. But when that's what you have to work with (as I do), that's simply what you work with.
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That is why under no circumstances (except in air conditioned greenhouses or similar facilities), I do NOT recommend to growing any tomato, strawberry and not even most peppers under temperatures up to 122 Fahrenheit or 50C. Neither in soil nor in hydroponics.
Thanks for clearing that up, I was a bit unclear on what you recommend.
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What if I'd post this topic in some other tomato, AZ or some other gardening or hydroponic forums, just to see what others may think of growing tomato, strawberry etc. under up to 50C in AZ or elsewhere?
Be my guest, I couldn't care any less. I know what I have seen and done, and unless you have a time machine and can go back to change those things. It wouldn't make any difference to me what was said.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:54 AM
Luches Luches is offline
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Well, all what you say now seems to confirms that you actually have no interest in any real dialogue with others about the topic and the problematics related, nor care about a more general objectivation that would actually be in the interest of others.

In that case I have no interest in any more dialogue with you about the topic either.

My opinion and advise against growing said crops under these extreme conditions are as stated, and they can be confirmed by- or withstand any experts' second opinion.
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:56 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Location: Lake Havasu AZ.
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Originally Posted by Luches View Post
Well, all what you say now seems to confirms that you actually have no interest in any real dialogue with others about the topic and the problematics related, nor care about a more general objectivation that would actually be in the interest of others.

In that case I have no interest in any more dialogue with you about the topic either.

My opinion and advise against growing said crops under these extreme conditions are as stated, and they can be confirmed by- or withstand any experts' second opinion.
Good for you! I am still not a member of the church of Luches. There are many people who feel that the USA never actually landed on the moon either, but unless you were on the moon when it happened (even if you were) how would you prove it. All there is Video (that can be faked) and samples brought back that may, or may not be real (depending on the EXPERT you talk to). You either believe the USA landed on the moon or don't believe they did. It cant really be proved either way, there have been many documentary's about it, but no actually 100% un-refutable proof that they did.

But it's so simple to plant a plant and see what happens for yourself, that there is no need to consult any "so called experts" to decide what would happen. The proof either way will be right in front of your eyes. All I suggest is that you try it for yourself and see what happens, rather than rely on what someone that does not live in that area may tell you. What have you lost, $2 for the plant and a few months watching what happens. If that is too much of an investment you should not even be considering growing anything at all.

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