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Dutch bucket tomatoes drooping, diseased?


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  #1  
Old 05-13-2015, 02:38 PM
james12man james12man is offline
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Default Dutch bucket tomatoes drooping, diseased?

First time hydroponic dutch bucket tomatoes. A couple of tomatoes plants are droopy and have minimal brown and yellow spots on first and second leaves. The droopy branches seem to bounce back and fourth but are not limited to just hottest times off day. Sometimes they are droopy in the mornings and get better throughout the day. I transplanted my tomatoes about a week ago.

I'm running a 50 gallon reservoir with 12 5 gallon buckets full of perlite. I am using a quarter inch line buried into the perlite supplying nutrients to the root ball At first they showed some signs of curling and stress but seem to snap out of it until I noticed some of my tomatoes starting to droop. 8 of my tomatoes are cherry and 4 are big beef so I'm hoping that this might be normal although I doubt it. I'm using 12 grams per 5 gallons each of 4.5-18-38 tomato fertilizer, and calcium nitrate, 15.5-0-0 with 6 grams per 5 gallons of epsom salt. Mixed separately.

I checked my ph, 6.3, my ppm, 1400 and they definitely get enough water throughout the day. I check to see if the buckets were draining right they seem fine. The only thing I could think of is that they got a disease from some algae growth during their indoor germination.

I am wondering if maybe the nutrients aren't hitting the affected plants riot balls sufficiently? I've exposed the roots on the two worst looking plants and they don't seem slimy or brown. The stock of the tomato at the very top of the grow plug seems a little thinner and a little bit darker but I'm not sure if that's a sign of disease being that it's been under perlite the entire time.

Does anyone think this crop is salvageable? It's early so I might be willing to trash this harvest and scrub it all down if need be... Any other suggestions???

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  #2  
Old 05-13-2015, 07:29 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello james12man,
Your plants look like their suffering from a deficiency or toxicity. My first thought is the nutrients your using. I don't know what it is, and their may be multiple reasons, but almost always when Epsom salt is part of the nutrients, they seem to have have problems. Do you have a link to the exact nutrients your using, as well as their mixing chart? Also algae won't actually hurt your plants, however besides being messy and slimy, in extreme cases it may use up oxygen the roots need if there is enough of it in the reservoir to lower the dissolved oxygen levels.

That being said I have some questions

1. What type of material is the grow plug, and is it wet (soaked). If it's to wet it could be causing stem rot.
2. How much water is at the bottom of each 5 gallon bucket?
3. Is the perlite soaked, or just moist.
4. When the plant droops, is the sun directly hitting the foliage, then the plant perks back up again when it's shaded?
5. What are you using for your water source?
6. What is the water temperature (both night and day)
7. What is the air temps (both night and day)?
8. Does the water in the reservoir look murky or cloudy?
9. Does the water in the reservoir smell bad and/or musty?
10. How often do you check your pH, and are you using pH drops to test it?
11. How often do you change your nutrient solution?
12. Are you using a air pump and air stone/s in the reservoir?
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:21 AM
james12man james12man is offline
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Default Droopy dutch bucket tomatoes salvageable?

1. Amazon.com: General Hydroponics Rapid Rooter Replacement Plugs: Patio, Lawn & Garden

2. I've got 2'' of water sitting at the bottom.

3. I'd say the perlite is wet and drains well but if you're concerned that could be an issue. I was told I could run this system 3 times a day for 1 hour a piece but I was worried about recent heat in the area so I was running it all day during the first week. Maybe this is the culprit?

4. The plants are found to be drooping at all times of the day and doesn't seem to increase with the afternoon heat. They do bounce back and fourth which has made me wonder if they really are past saving.

5. Rain barrel from my roof gutter. I also strain the water with a paint strainer before mixing in nutes. It's about 40ppm.

6. 67 degrees during the day and 66 at night. (underground res)

7. Variable temps here in MD. 55-85 degrees

8. The reservoir is pretty clean. Lots of aeration and movement. I take samples from the res everyday and it looks as clear as it did the first day.

9. No smell

10. I check the ph everyday and my meter was calibrated on the 1st of May. It works.

11. I have not emptied my res yet since it has only been a week but I have been topping it off with oxidized nutrient filled rain water.

12. I am using an air pump with 4 stones.

Thanks for your help and interest.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:30 AM
james12man james12man is offline
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Default Feed chart

1. 4-18-38 hydroponic fertilizer 12 g per 5 gallons mixed separately

http://www.amazon.com/Hydroponic-Tom...D5E53EF1VFY4JY

2. 15.5-0-0 Calcium Nitrate Fertilizer 12 g per 5 gallons mixed separetly

http://www.amazon.com/Calcium-Nitrat...bxgy_86_text_y

3. Epsom Salt 6g per gallon mixed separetly

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:45 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Where is the mixing chart, and manufactures website?
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:54 AM
james12man james12man is offline
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Default Feeding chart?

I've tried to find a feeding chart for Urban Hydroponics. The back of the fertilizer bag has instructions on how much to use for seedlings and mature tomato plants. Thats all they gave me. I'm thinking of finding a different fertilizer. Any suggestions? I'm thinking Masterblend from Morgan County Seed...
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:08 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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I couldn't find any website for the nutrients you gave a link to, and that's a red flag that they probably aren't a reputable company. At least not with much experience. Probably some guy selling it out of his garage or something similar. But I wouldn't get the master blend nutes either, that's another one that requires Epsom salts.

Here is a list of good Cost Effective Hydroponic Nutrients that I've found so far.
Cost Effective Hydroponic Nutrients

I'm getting ready to go to bed, so I'll go through and reply to your responses to my other questions when I get up.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:48 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
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Hello james12man,

1. I would try and pull back or off as much of those plugs as possible withough't doing too much damage to the roots. Those become saturated easily and if the stem is continually wet it can cause stem rot. In which case you'd be better off starting over at this stage.

2. 2 inches at the bottom should be OK

3. You defiantly don't need it running all day 24/7. I was concerned that the roots weren't getting enough air if the growing media was saturated/waterlogged. You just need to run the water long enough to wet the growing media, and frequently enough so it doesn't dry out. It didn't look like it would be over saturated because I didn't see algae growing on top. But I also saw your feed line was buried, so it would be possible for the top to be dry (eliminating algae growth) and to be saturated underneath.

I would go with short but frequent watering cycles. Depending on how much water (GPH) each plant is receiving, probably something like 15 min on every hour. Or 30 min on every hour to 1-1/2. As the plants get bigger and temperatures change you may need to continue to adjust your cycles. But the goal is always the same. On long enough to get the growing media wet, and not off so long that the growing media has a chance to dry before the next watering cycle. With tomato's especially it's important to maintain even watering. If the growing media gets soaked and then dries out before watering again the fruit tends to crack. Kind of like filling a water balloon that is being filled slowly, then turning up the faucet all the way at once and the balloon pops.

4. I know you said the drooping didn't seem to be related to the afternoon heat. I wasn't concerned weather the drooping was related to that, but if it was related to direct sunlight (regardless of the temp). Like if the sun was touching the leaves and it was drooping, then a cloud passed by blocking the sun and it bounced back. Or if it bounced back in the shade of a tree or patio awning etc. etc.. Even in the cool morning or days when it's nice in the mid 70's, if doping occurs as a result of direct sunlight, that's a sign the roots aren't getting enough oxygen.

5. How are you sanitizing the water before you use it?

6 & 7. Temps are fine right now, but as it gets warmer you may need to insulate the buckets to keep them from absorbing heat and keep the root zone temps below 80.

8 & 9. That's good.

10. NEVER completely trust a meter. They can give false readings for many reasons. If there is any question, always double check the results with pH drops. pH drops won't give you false readings. And right now there is reason for questioning the pH. pH is related to nutrient uptake for plants, and the plants are suffering from nutrient problems. The question is why, and eliminating possible problems is key to finding out.

11. What is "oxidized nutrient filled" water mean?

12. Good, that helps dissolved oxygen levels, helps to keep the nutrients from settling on the bottom, and helps keep pathogens down.

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