Hydroponics Online Home Home Store Blog Forums FAQs Lesson Plans Pictures

Go Back   Hydroponics Forums Discussions > Hydroponics Discussion Forums > Hydroponic Nutrients and Mediums

Pine Shavings


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:50 AM
le0n le0n is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Default Pine Shavings

Hi Guys,

Starting my first set up soon and was planning on using Coconut husks and Rice Hulls as the growing medium however I've found an outlet for some Pine shavings.

Has any one used Pine or other wood shavings as the growing medium? I think sawdust of any timber would be too fine and pack down too tight.

The reason I ask is I have a friend in Queensland who has about an acre of Strawberries under hydroponics using pine shavings. He uses a total loss system of flood and drain with the drain being used to water his lawn and flower garden. Nice strawberries, nice lawn and great looking flowers.

I know he replaces the pine shavings each year and also the plants new Strawberries.

Wondering how using this growing medium would work with Tomatoes.

Cheers Leon...

  #2  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:23 AM
Luches Luches is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Default

Hi Leon,
Quote:
Originally Posted by le0n View Post
Wondering how using this growing medium would work with Tomatoes.
I believe it would work just fine, same as for the strawberries - I see no reason why it shouldn't.
The key to success will simply be to use (or copy) the same technique as close as possible. Drip and waste or flood and waste is the way to go. If you recycle, you will most probably run into PH- or other nutrient related problems. The decomposition of sawdust is no problem for the actual plants, but it will screw-up your nutrient solution if recycled. perhaps not in the beginning but progressively, when decomposition takes place.

PS: you can also use fine chips or even mix chips and sawdust.
  #3  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:51 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lake Havasu AZ.
Posts: 1,855
Default

Quote:
Starting my first set up soon and was planning on using Coconut husks and Rice Hulls as the growing medium however I've found an outlet for some Pine shavings.
Can't say I have ever tried it, although I have thought about using similar products because of the cost of coco chips in large amounts. My biggest concern is weather it would be pH neutral. I have been wanting to do some testing on different wood chips normally used for mulch. As long as it doesn't have the leaves and/or roots mixed in that would decompose quickly, these would be easier for me to get as well as much less expensive too. Possibly even free from gardeners, or landscapers. I can get it free from the city, but I'm not sure it is clean enough or small enough to use as is.

Also, by nature wood floats. Using it alone in a flood and drain system would need to be closely adjusted. To high and the wood will rise and dislodge the root system, to low and it may not sufficiently saturate the roots. It will absorb water easily however (if not made from green wood) and with long enough cycle times the water level probably wont need to be very high anyway.
Quote:
I have a friend in Queensland who has about an acre of Strawberries under hydroponics using pine shavings.
I would be interested in seeing this setup, you wouldn't happen to have any pictures of it would you?

P.S. I have seen tomato's growing in what looks to be loosely packed hay bails also (picture attached).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	htomatoesbetter425.jpg
Views:	770
Size:	35.7 KB
ID:	581  
__________________
Website Owner
Home Hydroponic Systems
  #4  
Old 02-09-2010, 07:01 PM
le0n le0n is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Default

Thanks GPS, Have to admit I haven't thought of the wood chips or in fact any form of growing media floating in a flood and drain system. Plenty of time to try to get my media water logged first or even if required switch to a drip type system. Just goes to show asking questions some times gets good answers.

Sorry I haven't any pics of hanks system, I will ask and pass them on if I can.

Cheers Leon...
  #5  
Old 02-09-2010, 09:29 PM
le0n le0n is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Default

Been growing Orchids for years and as well as being one of the most beautiful flowers they are easy to grow.

One of the easiest ways to grow orchids is to use burnt wood or Charcoal as the growing medium.

Has any one ever tried using Charcoal as the growing medium in Hydroponics?

Once it was flushed to get rid of the black residue I think it would be a great medium to use. Very cheap and available here in the Philippines.

Cheers Leon...
  #6  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:41 PM
Luches Luches is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Default

The floating problem is solved with this kind of light weight medium by simply moisten it well, prior to run the system. If wet it doesn't float or go anywhere. It doesn't dislodge any roots neither then. The very same is done with perlite, which is even lighter - in case it is used in E&F.

But most systems based on chips or/and sawdust do not use actual E&F, or any recycling system as I said earlier. The sawdust or mix get filled in porous (woven) poly planting bags (of adequate size) first. Then you actually close the bag, turn it or lay it flat, pinch or cut a hole(s) in the bag and transplant your seedling through the slit in the medium. Then you simply drip (often a pin dripper is sticked in the bag) and let go to waste, evaporation actually. Obviously (for the skeptics) cheap nutrients that are manufactured from raw materials on site are used with this rather "wasteful" technique.

Well, that is the technique that I know of and that is commonly used with sawdust and chips.

Last edited by Luches; 02-09-2010 at 10:50 PM.
  #7  
Old 02-10-2010, 03:03 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lake Havasu AZ.
Posts: 1,855
Default

Quote:
The floating problem is solved with this kind of light weight medium by simply moisten it well, prior to run the system. If wet it doesn't float or go anywhere.
I always pre-soak and wash my medium before placing it into my systems. I just figured everyone else would also and that would just be a given. Wet wood does float, depending on the type of wood some will float more than others. Hard woods usually sink first, but pine is considered a soft wood. Just soak it in water for a few days to see how much still remains buoyant. But regardless like I mentioned before, as long as the water level is not to high allowing the bottom portion to become buoyant, and the cycle times are long enough to keep the wood saturated with moisture one or two inches below the top of the medium, I don't see any problems with using it.

As the plants get older and the root systems get more extensive there will be less chance of any problems with any dislodging or shifting, it will become a solid mass of roots by then. I would just be mostly concerned while the plants are still small. You should design the overflow for a flood and drain system to be easily adjustable no matter what growing medium you use. That way you can test things at different levels to see what works the best for the plants you are growing.
Quote:
The sawdust or mix get filled in porous (woven) poly planting bags (of adequate size) first. Then you actually close the bag, turn it or lay it flat, pinch or cut a hole(s) in the bag and transplant your seedling through the slit in the medium. Then you simply drip (often a pin dripper is sticked in the bag) and let go to waste, evaporation actually.
Ya, this is called a "Non Recovery Drip System." Just for fun I attached a couple of images using this technique. The vertical bags are feed by the upside down water bottles at the top of the bags. These bottles are hand filled when needed, and have a slow dipper nozzle. The horizontal bags with the tomato's are fed the same way as a regular drip system. Also I think the tomato's in the bails of hay that I posted before a non recovery system, though you could run a channel underneath to recover the run off.
Quote:
Has any one ever tried using Charcoal as the growing medium in Hydroponics?
I have never herd of using charcoal in hydroponics myself. I don't think you can ever get rid of the black residue. Simply because it's basically just a lump carbon that is the black residue. The hard wood charcoal would hold up the best I would think. I'm not sure what type of charcoal it is they use in filtration systems, I do know it's a special charcoal that's extremely porous. I'm not sure why it doesn't dissolve the same way as regular charcoal though. But if you can get charcoal that dosen't dissolve in water, leaving behind the residue that would clog your pump, it might work. I'm not sure what it would do to the pH, and if it would somehow filter out the nutrients from the solution. Nothing like a small scale system to test it in, just to see what would happen for s**** and giggles.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_4855.jpg
Views:	792
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	583   Click image for larger version

Name:	0679.jpg
Views:	573
Size:	20.5 KB
ID:	584  
__________________
Website Owner
Home Hydroponic Systems

Last edited by GpsFrontier; 02-10-2010 at 03:08 AM.
  #8  
Old 02-10-2010, 05:40 AM
Luches Luches is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Default

It took me some time to finally figure out what is going on here for a while, now - but I have got it now!

I am truly sorry to make this personal again, - but as IT IS PERSONAL, I can't avoid treating it as such.

As I said: something strange has been going on for a while now - but it has a clear pattern. GPS, replies to almost every post and to every point - no matter if he knows the answer, has experience, or any truly valuable information. Some second guesses, many personal suspicions and false alerts, some common or rather odd misconceptions. Well, the whole enchilada and even some severe cognitive issues included. So far nothing really wrong or strange with that, I mean that's human behavior I wouldn't blame anyone for. But then someone steps in with quite often real or more advanced knowledge, perhaps a few correction, more info, suggestions - or whatever. Nothing wrong with that either I suppose - as it is the case- and happens in any forum on a daily basis.

But what happens next is just amazing and actually not funny in the longer run: GPS steps in again and gets real smart all of a sudden. He jealously pics up every bit and bite from the previous posts and embellishes it, illustrates it or simply expresses the exact same thing in a slightly different way. When time permits, he googles a bit around with the newly acquired input and keywords, to complete or garnish with pictures (which are actually copyright protected and are illegally linked here from his end, instead of a reference or a link to the original site). While he is at it, he tries to discredit some of what was written previously, even if he is deadly wrong again, it is not exactly necessary or a rather ambiguous matter. Just to make sure that everyone must think, no-one actually got it, - but him!

That way he tries to fool everyone, and jealously and recklessly tries to gather all the credit for every single valuable bit others have actually said and provided. In fact (sometimes) only minutes ago. Without consideration for the others - not for the actual authors, nor for the readers of the thread! Even the origins/authors of all the pictures get no credit and sources aren't mentioned either, as it could draw some attention from his "performance".

Man, you can't do that! Well you can always try, but you can't do that systematically without several people getting frustrated and/or realizing what your abominably reckless tactics actually are. Anyway, sooner or later people will see trough it and will be frustrated, eventually getting sick of it or even scared away.

From my end it is clear now that I will not give you any more peg to hang your apparent smart-aleck and jealousy issue on

We are done here, and I am outa here for a while (until change of PR manager, as they say)!

Last edited by Luches; 02-10-2010 at 05:48 AM.
  #9  
Old 02-10-2010, 07:41 PM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lake Havasu AZ.
Posts: 1,855
Default

Quote:
It took me some time to finally figure out what is going on here for a while, now - but I have got it now!

I am truly sorry to make this personal again, - but as IT IS PERSONAL, I can't avoid treating it as such.
You have not got it at all, just making assumptions again because everything is personal to you.
Quote:
As I said: something strange has been going on for a while now - but it has a clear pattern. GPS, replies to almost every post and to every point - no matter if he knows the answer, has experience, or any truly valuable information. Some second guesses, many personal suspicions and false alerts, some common or rather odd misconceptions. Well, the whole enchilada and even some severe cognitive issues included.
I do try to bring up things to think about ,that might be of a concern to people when building your systems. Why? Because it cost time and money to do it over again just because you missed something simple in the beginning. Not always do you need to do things all over, but functionality is important. But the decisions are theirs to make if the issues apply to them.

I also try to elaborate on what it is, and/or possible issues that you might come across because of them. I let the other person decide if it is important to them or not. I have been told many times that they wish they thought of something before they built there system. Also it is not just about the people in the threads, many people read the threads that never register or reply to them. That is also why I bring up points to think about (key words "think about") when building there systems.
Quote:
But then someone steps in with quite often real or more advanced knowledge, perhaps a few correction, more info, suggestions - or whatever.
I like it when others provide more info and suggestions, even corrections. Why? They help me with my systems. But When they defy the laws of physics or nature, I need to do more explaining because something is wrong somewhere. There is no one in this forum I would consider an expert, I certainly don't consider myself an expert. I have always explained that I am not an expert, but don't take that to mean I don't know anything about hydroponics or things in general either. There are many other people with valuable experiences and information to share in this forum. Even the so called "newbies" and new people have brought up new ideas that were helpful to me (and others too I'm sure).
Quote:
GPS steps in again and gets real smart all of a sudden. He jealously pics up every bit and bite from the previous posts and embellishes it, illustrates it or simply expresses the exact same thing in a slightly different way.
This is where you get you get a bug up your butt and take everything personal, and you take everything personal because you want to.
Quote:
When time permits, he googles a bit around with the newly acquired input and keywords, .
Of course I try to learn more about hydroponics when I can. Although, there is nothing in this thread I didn't already know. Except the questions about using charcoal as a growing medium. Even though I don"t think it would be cost effective for me, it's possible and would like to know more. If you are referring about the statement about the "Non Recovery Drip system," You are only flattering yourself. I have known about that for well over six months, including what it's actually called. Again you take something simple and make it personal for no reason, because you want to take everything personal.
Quote:
While he is at it, he tries to discredit some of what was written previously, even if he is deadly wrong again, it is not exactly necessary or a rather ambiguous matter.
If it defies the laws of nature and physics, I will want to them to explain, give examples etc.. Like I do, because if it dosen't make scene it most likely won't work (if that discredits someone, sorry). If it was an ambiguous matter you wouldn't take it so personal.
Quote:
to complete or garnish with pictures which are actually copyright protected and are illegally linked here from his end, instead of a reference or a link to the original site)
I'm glad you know what site they images are from because I don't (do share if you like). As I have explained before, I search images using Google, Bing and yahoo images. Then save them to a folder on my computer for later use. These images don't come with a link to any site or URL, nor do they have titles and descriptions. Sometimes yahoo, Bing and Google might have a link to the site the image is from. I do sometimes visit the sites from that link, but I have no way to log the site to the image that I saved to my computer. Also I only visit probably 5% of the websites this way. It would take me hours upon hours to find a site a particular image came from that I have saved. Even then I have no way to know if it's the original source.

They pick up the images from various sources not just commercial websites. Sometimes if the source is from flicker, it might say the images is copy written. But most times it just says it may have a copyright. That's just flickers disclaimer, and the only way to tell if the image is copy written or not would be to contact the original source directly. If it says it's copy written, I don't save it. Otherwise I will if it's something I like. That does not mean that the image is from the original source either. One image may be on the internet in thousands of locations, the only way to tell if it is copy written, is if you are at the original source. True I may have copy protected images that were not from the original source.

For any place that wanted to protect there images, there are two ways to do so. The simplest one is to disable the "save image as" function when you right click an image. This is a simple thing to do for the website owner. You just install a line of code in the source code of the pages you want it disabled for. Another one is to install a watermark in the image. They can still copy the image if you didn't disable the function, but you can prove where the image comes from. This is also a deterrent because most people wont want them with the watermark, and there is still a way of getting the image by taking a screen shot. Cutting the image out of the screen shot and converting it back to a jpg. I have never done this. There were a few times I wanted to but didn't want to take the time to figure out how to convert it back to a jpg.
Quote:
That way he tries to fool everyone, and jealously and recklessly tries to gather all the credit for every single valuable bit others have actually said and provided.
Again you only flatter yourself by thinking I don't know anything, so I must have only learned something from you. Truth is I cant think of anything I learned from you (nothing important anyway).
Quote:
Without consideration for the others - not for the actual authors, nor for the readers of the thread! Even the origins/authors of all the pictures get no credit and sources aren't mentioned either, as it could draw some attention from his "performance".
Again I don't/cant keep track of links to images. I do however believe I did visit the site the image of the vertical non recovery drip system came from. Only because if I remember correctly they were taken in south America, or Puerto Rico. I think it was a school, or aid program it was about, if you are interested in looking for it. I have had that image as well as another from the same place for months. The other two I have also had for months but don't remember anything about them.
__________________
Website Owner
Home Hydroponic Systems

Last edited by GpsFrontier; 02-10-2010 at 07:59 PM.
  #10  
Old 02-10-2010, 08:26 PM
Amigatec Amigatec is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luches View Post
It took me some time to finally figure out what is going on here for a while, now - but I have got it now!

I am truly sorry to make this personal again, - but as IT IS PERSONAL, I can't avoid treating it as such.

As I said: something strange has been going on for a while now - but it has a clear pattern. GPS, replies to almost every post and to every point - no matter if he knows the answer, has experience, or any truly valuable information. Some second guesses, many personal suspicions and false alerts, some common or rather odd misconceptions. Well, the whole enchilada and even some severe cognitive issues included. So far nothing really wrong or strange with that, I mean that's human behavior I wouldn't blame anyone for. But then someone steps in with quite often real or more advanced knowledge, perhaps a few correction, more info, suggestions - or whatever. Nothing wrong with that either I suppose - as it is the case- and happens in any forum on a daily basis.

But what happens next is just amazing and actually not funny in the longer run: GPS steps in again and gets real smart all of a sudden. He jealously pics up every bit and bite from the previous posts and embellishes it, illustrates it or simply expresses the exact same thing in a slightly different way. When time permits, he googles a bit around with the newly acquired input and keywords, to complete or garnish with pictures (which are actually copyright protected and are illegally linked here from his end, instead of a reference or a link to the original site). While he is at it, he tries to discredit some of what was written previously, even if he is deadly wrong again, it is not exactly necessary or a rather ambiguous matter. Just to make sure that everyone must think, no-one actually got it, - but him!

That way he tries to fool everyone, and jealously and recklessly tries to gather all the credit for every single valuable bit others have actually said and provided. In fact (sometimes) only minutes ago. Without consideration for the others - not for the actual authors, nor for the readers of the thread! Even the origins/authors of all the pictures get no credit and sources aren't mentioned either, as it could draw some attention from his "performance".

Man, you can't do that! Well you can always try, but you can't do that systematically without several people getting frustrated and/or realizing what your abominably reckless tactics actually are. Anyway, sooner or later people will see trough it and will be frustrated, eventually getting sick of it or even scared away.

From my end it is clear now that I will not give you any more peg to hang your apparent smart-aleck and jealousy issue on

We are done here, and I am outa here for a while (until change of PR manager, as they say)!

Bye Bye!!!

You can take your attitude with you!!!

Last edited by Amigatec; 02-10-2010 at 08:32 PM.
  #11  
Old 02-11-2010, 01:07 AM
Luches Luches is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigatec View Post
You can take your attitude with you!!!
I knew that even the committee is packed with smart-ass supporters, - but have you actually thought I would leave my attitude behind?!

Look I am a hydroponist by choice, not a tutor for guys with severe cognitive issues and/or post traumatic smart-ass disorders. But I know enough to tell that a circumstantial bad attitude is easier to correct as having a bad character or a low IQ. In fact I've been much too patient here!

You guys have fun - I'll just observe the course of your group therapy

Last edited by Luches; 02-11-2010 at 01:11 AM.
  #12  
Old 02-11-2010, 03:26 AM
GpsFrontier GpsFrontier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lake Havasu AZ.
Posts: 1,855
Default

Quote:
but have you actually thought I would leave my attitude behind?!
One can only hope. I'd say Martin Luther King, Jr. said it best:
"I Have a Dream"
Quote:
Look I am a hydroponist by choice
Not me I have a gun to my head.
Quote:
not a tutor for guys with severe cognitive issues and/or post traumatic smart-ass disorders.
Disorders? According to you I was rather good at it. Well that's too bad. I'm not sure I will ever get over it, oh woo is me.
Quote:
But I know enough to tell that a circumstantial bad attitude is easier to correct as having a bad character or a low IQ.
But yet you do nothing about it. I don't care who you are, where you came from and how much you might know. If your attitude stinks, so do you. I would much rather be best friends with the dumbest guy on the block than the pompas a**.
Quote:
In fact I've been much too patient here!
Going by all your past interactions in this forum, patients must really be hard to come by in your neck of the woods. Maybe you could have some shipped in from a different supplier. That way you wouldn't need to worry about running out before you get more in.
Quote:
I'll just observe the course of your group therapy
Don't bother, I'm sure you would never be able to learn anything from it anyway. Spend your time trying to find that supplier for Patients you so desperately need.
__________________
Website Owner
Home Hydroponic Systems
  #13  
Old 02-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Luches Luches is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 177
Default

I guess If I'd go to the "restroom", come back and say: "I just dropped three balls in there!". You'd go in have a deep sniff and would quote me:

Quote:
just dropped three balls!
GPS: I could be wrong, but smells more like 2 and a half to me...

You still don't get it, and will probably never even remotely - don't you!?
ENOUGH!

Last edited by Luches; 02-11-2010 at 11:18 AM.
  #14  
Old 02-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Amigatec Amigatec is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 152
Default

Luches you come on here with your "holier than thou" attitude, and think you are to always right and everyone else is wrong. You talk over there heads, and I have yet to see you actually help anyone here.

If you don't like it here then LEAVE!!!!

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.