Tomato Plants are not producing....

[halfway]

I am a rank amateur, but I will add this if it helps.

I decided I could NOT grow tomtatoes or peppers indoors because of lighting constraints. Since I did not want to use hps or MH, I felt I could not get even red spectrum flouros to penetrate deep enough to fully bloom the flowers and set fruit.

Maybe with High Output T5's, but not with my T8s.

Good luck with your grow...sounds like the plants are thriving minus the blooms.

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by halfway

I am a rank amateur,

...and I'm a higher ranking Amateur! (or is it lower ranking!)

Either way halfway probably knows a bit more about it than I do, but I do know about growing vegetative only plants with High Output T5 lights underwater ;-) Figure that one out...

You need to figure out how many watts total you are running above your plants, add all the lightbulbs up multiply by 32 and you will get your total wattage for the system, now guesstimate how much wattage each plant is getting. T8's don't put out that many lumens (I think that's the term), or rather the amount of light they can direct at an object. We spend boatloads of money on bulbs and the housings which direct the light to maximize plant growth. A couple hardware store shop lights just waste over 50% of the light they create.

Trust me I understand the not wanting to invest in an expensive lighting system. Consider how much you have invested so far, for non-fruit producing plants. All is not lost though...you can supplement the light you have using additional spectrum. Now I am not sold on the led panels quite yet myself, I think they need a few more years until they really get good. Though I have heard some running the red spectrum LED light to add the beneficial spectrum of light. Quite recently in fact...though not for tomatoes ;-)

I would guess you might have to double your lighting, add additional spectrum of bulbs, Add some reflectors, take GPS's advice on your nutrient program, and plant some basil to go with the yummy tomatoes you will be eating later this season.

FYI, I use the G.H. FloraMato nutrient for flowering and it may be used as a single part nutrient mix. I have had great results. That said, I still add additional supplements on top of that.

Good luck, and let us know if you get a picture of your setup.

Todd

[T'Mater]

Ok, since i just swapped out my nutes the night before i posted this i went and added the FlorGro. Shouldn't be much of an issue i wouldn't think, they might have gone half a day with out the FloraGro.

Atm i have 4 bulbs all together giving me 128w.

So you think i should feed them for 15min's and then off for 30min's might help? I just started the 1hr on/1hr off about 3weeks ago, just trying to come up with something to help the plant's start to produce.

Here are a few pic's of my set up. I def. appreciate everyones input and am not taking any of it lightly. We want Mater's badly. If i have to eat another store boughten tomato i'm going to puke.

[PaulF]

Hey T'Mater-

I don't think your problem is with your nutrients.

I think your lights are way, way too high. Your plants have grown up in an effort to reach the light source. I will bet if you get those lights right down on top of the plants you will have a great deal more success.

However, I'm not sure you will have enough wattage there to really make those tomatoes grow, you may need to add some supplemental lighting, the more the better.

I too have used the General Hydroponics Flora series of nutrients and have had simply amazing growth on my Roma tomato plants. Mine are at the 90 day mark as well. Although the plants are only about 3 feet tall they are incredibly bushy and covered with blossoms, many of which are now bearing pea sized tomatoes.

Beautiful setup by the way. I am really impressed with how you did your system.

Good luck, keep up the good work!

[T'Mater]

Ya i'm really beginning to think the light set up is my problem to after reading everyone's thought's on it. Nother mishap of reading on my part. Since that pic i've lowered them to about 2inches or so from the plant's and am looking at just over all better/more lighting. Also thinking about covering the side wall's with reflective material to help with bouncing the light around.

[GpsFrontier]

figure out how many watts total you are running above your plants, add all the lightbulbs up multiply by 32 and you will get your total wattage for the system,

This is a bit unclear to me because the actual wattage (not replacement equivalent) of the florescent bulb is the wattage (amount of electricity) that's being used. So I don't understand why you would multiply it by anything.

Hello T'Mater,
Good to hear the plants only went a day with the unbalanced nutrients, and you shouldn't see any ill effects from just one day with them. I don't grow under lights myself, because I use the sun (natural lighting). But I have seen online where florescent lighting will grow all kinds of fruiting plants. However, the amount of florescent lighting in the pictures wont even close to enough. As well as the light placement is inadequate for tall plants. The usable light drops off much quicker the farther away the bulb is from the foliage with florescent lighting, than it would with HID lighting. Even with more bulbs the tops of the plant may get enough of light, but that would be it the way the lights are positioned. The leaves a few inches down wont get enough light for proper photosynthesis, thus the tall spindly plants. That's why florescent's aren't typically used for taller plants (though it can be done).

Here are a few videos of florescent (T 8's or 12's I forget which) being used to grow a variety of fruiting plants (even a pineapple). Notice the vertical placement of the florescent tubes, and the amount of tubes (with spacing every couple feet) being used.

YouTube - ‪2/2/2010 grow room update‬‏
YouTube - ‪Video 6.wmv‬‏
YouTube - ‪Video 7.wmv‬‏
YouTube - ‪Growing floral flowers with hydroponics‬‏

But before you make any additional purchases, you'll want to compare the costs, as well as the pro's and cons between florescent and HID lighting. Find out your local costs. But here I can get 4 foot shop light fixtures (twin T 8's) for $18 (without bulbs) new at Lowe's. And a contractors pack of 12, 4 foot T'8 bulbs for $30. Or I can get 4 foot long twin T 5 shop lights for $35 at Home Depot (with the bulbs included), not sure about replacement bulb prices though.

Either way you'll want to add up the equipment costs, as well as materials needed to support the lights. Then compare that to the equipment costs for HID lighting, as well as fans for venting heat from that grow tent. That many florescent light fixtures will heat up the tent as well. Then you'll want to compare electrical costs to run both. Figure the wattage of each light fixture, multiply that by the total fixtures planed, and run it through this Electricity Cost Calculator (get the cost you pay per kilowatt from your electric bill). If the package dosen't have the total watts, you can calculate it by multiplying the amperage with voltage (actual voltage of the fixture 110V-115V-120V-125V etc., not the outlet voltage). My guess is in the end it would probably be more economical, and/or simpler to go with HID, or at least about the same.


P.S.
You can easily add pictures directly from your computer with the "manage Attachments button below the box where you type the text of the post (about the middle of the page). It makes viewing the pictures easier, as well as dosen't make the page so long Also very nice hydro setup you have going, look forward to seeing more of it.

[T'Mater]

Def. appreciate the info. thinking about possibly moving my tent outside and just using natural light. Atm i've opened up my garage door to let any/all of the sun's natural light come in.

Guess it's time to figure out what's the best solution.

How do i need to figure how much lighting i actually need?

And would adding reflective material to the sides of the tent help much?

[Freshwater]

Originally Posted by GpsFrontier

This is a bit unclear to me because the actual wattage (not replacement equivalent) of the florescent bulb is the wattage (amount of electricity) that's being used. So I don't understand why you would multiply it by anything.

Hey GPS, How you doing? I was trying to figure out how much light he had in his system, as he did not mention it in his first two posts...didn't know if he had 2 fixtures with 2 bulbs each, multiplied by 32 watts per bulb with a system wattage of 128 watts of florescent lighting , or 8 fixtures with 4 bulbs each at 32 watts a bulb, with a system total of 1024 watts.

That and my brain knows florescent wattage in T5ho's and how that relates to T8's. There are some people who are able to flower medicinal plants under florescent lighting but the quality and quantity are not ideal. Not sure if it is possible with tomato plants using 6500k bulbs regardless of the photo period.

Unless you are growing under florescent lighting on CRACK! Jeez nice videos you posted there, but I have to think he is almost using more wattage (draw) than he would be running MH and or HPS.


************************************************** *************

Yo T 'Mater (<<<----Still love that name)

Sweet setup man, Looks like you really looked into and/or got some sound advice on setting up your system. You a Crop King customer by any chance?

Ok, so I see you are running Bato Buckets. As you noticed in my post you just commented on, I run them as well. They do have a nice little 1/2 gallon-ish reservoir in the bottom to help if you miss a water cycle or something fails or you accidentally turn your timer to manual for 24 hrs...yes I did that...doh

It looks like you are figuring out your nutrients a little bit now, don't worry...at some point it begins to become second nature...so I am told...hehe

This year I really don't stress on my nutrient like I did last year. Some may disagree with me here, but you might want to drop your P.H. down to the 5.8 range and let it work up to 6.3 -6.4-ish range and then slam it back down...my 2-cents.

You look like you have thought out your build nicely, I am impressed...with the exception of your lighting. I am almost surprised you have such nice Vegetative growth with 128 watts of T8's at that height...Good Job.

I have to ask, where is your grow tent located? I can't help but notice the one end of your tent has more light coming into it than your florescent light appear to be putting out. Are the plants on that end growing better?

Thanks for putting up the pic's, as they say..."A picture is worth a thousand word!"

Todd

[T'Mater]

LOL, now that you asked me the ? the whole set up is in the garage. And yes at first the end plant's being closest to the door were growing the best. Didn't even think about the extra little light they were getting when opening and closing the door.

Atm tho, the plant's kind of in the middle of the system are growing the best. But yes those farthest from the door are smaller.

Ya, Crop King gave me the best deal on the buckets.

I will start leaving the garage door open while i'm at home to help with any xtra light.

Do you use the powder Ph Down or liquid?

You said you use the FloraMato dry, do you use that with the Maxigro and Maxibloom dry to?

Would it do any damage if i swapped from the FloraSeries liquid to the dry stuff.

[Freshwater]

Lol...I missed your 5:36 post...ok so it's in the garage, you don't have sufficient lighting at the moment... Just move the whole thing out....HOLY CRAP!!!

10 Day Weather Forecast for Nixa, MO - weather.com

I just checked your weather forecast...man I wouldn't even leave the house....If it drizzles outside this California Boy doesn't go out...THUNDER STORMS!

Originally Posted by T'Mater

the plant's kind of in the middle of the system are growing the best. But yes those farthest from the door are smaller.

My guess is they are getting light from both fixtures...the ones in the middle.

Hey, I started my plants indoors this year... we actually got hit by some pretty credible weather this year...ended the California drought...and mandatory water restrictions have been lifted.

I pulled one of my 96 watt T5HO lights off my tank...24" by I dunno 8" and seeded all my tomato plants during the storms...I think you are going to have a great head start on everyone else... if you move those into natural sunlight (slowly to harden them off first) you will have a great harvest.



And a little 48 watt fixture one the left...

[GpsFrontier]

Hey GPS, How you doing? I was trying to figure out how much light he had in his system, as he did not mention it in his first two posts...didn't know if he had 2 fixtures with 2 bulbs each, multiplied by 32 watts per bulb with a system wattage of 128 watts of florescent lighting , or 8 fixtures with 4 bulbs each at 32 watts a bulb, with a system total of 1024 watts.

That and my brain knows florescent wattage in T5ho's and how that relates to T8's. There are some people who are able to flower medicinal plants under florescent lighting but the quality and quantity are not ideal. Not sure if it is possible with tomato plants using 6500k bulbs regardless of the photo period.

Oh, I see you were figuring the bulbs were 32 watts, and multiplying that by how many bulbs there were, for a total wattage used figure. That makes sense, but I'm sure not all florescent bulbs are 32 watts. Those videos are nice, they were done by a member of this forum (watercatwn6535nd) a while back, and rather than try to explain it, it was easier to post the links. I'm sure also that just going with HID lighting would be simpler, and cheaper when comparing the equipment needs for something like that. And the electrical cost would probably wind up being a wash as well, I would bet. But never the less it can be done if you wanted to. I may even try something similar in the future.

How do i need to figure how much lighting i actually need?

I don't really know of any charts, and I don't use artificial light, but for that space I'm sure you 1 400-600 watt MH or HPS would work fine for that space. Or even 2, 200-300 watt MH or HPS would be fine as well. Having two smaller wattage's will allow you to spread the light more evenly, and still supply the same amount of light. But I would call a few hydroponic shops, and compare what they suggest, but keep in mind their job is to sell you stuff, even if you don't really need it. That's why I would call a at least 3-5 hydroponic shops to see what the common thread of the advice they gave was, to use as a guide or starting point.

Reflective surfaces will help any type of lighting, but how much depends on how well you construct it, and how reflective the materials you use are. And as long as you already have them you could even use the HID light/s above, and the florescent on the sides or below for even better coverage. As for figuring out how much florescent lighting to use for using just florescent? Well, I would fallow the setup in the videos pretty closely if going that direction, especially+ for tall plants like tomatoes.

P.S.
I use earth juice dry crystal pH adjusters myself. You can easily switch from using one nutrient mix, to another. Just make sure you flush the system really good to get as much residual out of the system before switching. And don't try to mix two different lines of nutrients together.