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Dallas grow bags coco coir hydro system - help
Hello, I'm near Dallas (zone 8a) and would like a sounding board on my proposed hydro garden. This is my third year tinkering with a garden in the back yard and I think this one might finally be the one. Can anyone offer suggestions on my planned hydro system, please. Tell me why it won't work or tell me what I'm missing but please keep it as close to constructive criticism as you can (I bruise easy!)
The Layout On the north corner of my lot there is an area that gets good sun till around 5-ish so this will be the site. I'd have a 35 gallon garbage can nearly buried in the clay soil as the reservoir which would be filled with nutrient solution. It's mostly buried to keep the nutrient temps cooler in the Dallas sun, except for about 10 inches or so to keep rain at bay. It would be sealed with its cover, hoses would exit as high up the side as possible and foam insulation would cover the exposed portion of the reservoir. A pump would push the water up a 1/2 inch pipe to a tee, where it is split to feed two nft channels. The reason I have two channels is 1) the area is square shape 2) some plants don't like to grow next to others so I'll separate them into the two channels a few feet apart and hope that's enough separation. The nft channels would be made from 1x8's or 1x10's screwed together in a "U" shape, elevated by 4x4 posts and sloped towards the reservoir and lined with clear plastic to aid drainage. Inside the channels plants would be in grow bags. Then the channel will be covered with either a double layer of weed control fabric (which is black) or white/black plastic 6 mil draped over the top. There would be slits in the cover where the plants poke through only. The idea is that the water would flow through/down the nft channels where the coco coir should wick enough water to feed the plants and drain back into the reservoir. The cover is to stop algae growth and keep weed seeds and junk out. If I used the white 6mil it would keep roots cooler in the hot sun while reflecting sunlight back up to leaves. Grow Bags and Medium I have 10x 2-gallon bags and 10x 3-gallon bags on order (that, the pump, various bits for drip lines and timer are the only parts in my possession today). I'll fill those with 2/3 coco coir and 1/3 perlite or vermiculite for better water retention. In the tomatoes I'll add a cup of dolomite to give them the extra calcium they need (last year I crumbled egg shells in their containers). What to grow I'd like to plant tomato, bell pepper, zucchini, cucumber, eggplant, green beans, peas, carrots, green onion, garlic, and maybe a couple of others. Companion Planting and Natural Pest Control I am still learning about companion planting and I'll be trying it for the first time this year. Last year I planted broccolli with one of my tomatoes until I found out this will stunt the tomatoes growth. I also had that tomato planted next to a potato which increases chance of cross contaminating with blight. Carrots will be planted with the tomato to take advantage of the "unused" air space at the base of the tomatoes. Most sources say carrots help tomatoes but I did find one dissenting source so it'll be an experiment. The onion and garlic is to deter ants - they loved my tomatoes last year but didn't seem to cause a big problem. French marigolds are said to repel harmful soil nematodes, aphids, some beetles, tomato hornworms, whitefly and even rabbits but bean plants do not like them. I may sprinkle some peppermint here and there because it's so good in tea but it loves to take over so it may stay in its own small containers. In the same 3-gallon bag I'll pair a tomato with carrots, onions, basil and parsley. This bag will be next to a bell pepper with basil, parsley, and carrots. I'll pair cucumber with dill (not near carrots), nasturtium and radishes. I may plant sunflowers in there as well so the cucumber will vine on the sunflower stalk/stem. Maybe. I'd have to keep the sunflower away from the green beans so it may be too much trouble. All this next to: Zucchini with radish and nasturtium next to: Beans which will pair with celery and spinach, next to: Peas Squash Eggplant On and on, you get the idea. Secondary system, containers Away from the nft (probably on the patio), in self-watering containers and "regular" containers I'll plant broccoli, spinach, lettuce. If I have any containers left (I only have 6 self-watering and 4 regular containers) I'll add bok choi/pak choi, brussel's sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower and maybe some spices like thyme and oregano, etc. 1. I'd like some suggestions on the companion planting aspect. 2. How far apart do the two channels have to be? 3. Because of the dolomite, is it ok to let the excess water from the tomatoes drain back to reservoir? Has anybody tried it? 4. Should I go ahead with the NFT idea or should I go with my gut and have individual drip lines for each grow bag? (I have 1/4 inch "soaker" hose to snake around the surface) 5. Is a 3-gallon bag big enough for a tomato? Bell Pepper? Zucchini? 6. The sun was so brutal last year, what shade cloth should I use and when should I put it up (don't want to stunt growth but last year tomatoes and peppers just shut down production till it cooled back down again)? 7. Heavy rains last year nearly killed everything, any thoughts on how to protect the plants (the black/white 6mil plastic may help???) 8. On the patio garden, which plants would need to be in self-watering containers and which can stand a bit more variability in their hydration? Anyway, sorry for the long, long post. I just didn't know how to 'splain it succinctly. I'd appreciate any help or suggestions. |
#2
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Sounds like you are planing quite a garden. First I would like to say I have some designs for using geothermal energy to cool the nutrient solution. These designs are in pdf format and the file size is too large for this forums pdf file size limit, so I cant attach them to the posts. But if anyone wants to send me a private message with their e-mail address I will be happy to e-mail them to you.
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#3
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Gps, thanks for the response. You've posed a lot of questions which is great - it helps me to flesh out my own thoughts and work through the problems in my design before I go to the home center, much better than spending a chunk of money on materials that won't work!
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I just don't know if the proximity issues have to do with the soil or the air around the plant (pollen/excreted hormones/"bad Mojo"). Quote:
True Value stores carry dolomite for use on garden veggies and lawns. Earthbox recommends it for tomatoes. Quote:
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Last year I grew tomato in 1, 2 and 5 gallon containers but I had 2 or 3 in each pot. The plants themselves did not get huge but produced adequate numbers of fruits except when it got to 100 degrees and except the ones in the 1-gallon pot. The ones in the 1-gallon pot did not do well at all so 1 is definitely too small. The 2-gallon had 2 plants in it and grew about 4' high and produced fewer than 20 medium size tomatoes all season. The 3 plants in the 5 gallon each grew about 5' tall and produced the most tomatoes but I'd like to do better this year of course. Quote:
I had hoped that keeping the nutrient temp lower may help a bit as well. Quote:
I wondered if anyone had used the 6mil as a protective mulch as I described above and if that can be helpful in keeping the roots from getting waterlogged. I thought of having two pieces, each strapped down the length of the channel, one on the left side and one on the right, draped over the channel and overlapping. The precision of matching the slits on both sides for the plants to grow out through may be too much for me to attempt though. As far as rain goes I don't think the leaves and fruits themselves would be too badly harmed even by a Dallas downpour but due to excess water in the root zone. Our rain almost killed my tomatoes last year - all the fruit was destroyed (popped or cracked) and the leaves turned yellowish and were drooping. It got even worse for them as my staking system failed (store-bought tomato cage) and the plants eventually all drooped over completely after 3 days of rain. Poor little things, this was in August or Sept and I almost gave up on them but I increased feeding a bit and pruned off some damage and they all came back. On the December 2nd we got our first real freeze and there were probably 15 or so green tomatoes on the vines that I forgot to bring in. |
#4
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re the container garden
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Check out the link above for further info but I planned on using the hydro nutrients for the container garden. It worked out fairly well last year if I alternated hydro nutes with Earth Juice Catalyst in weekly feedings. I started that after the rain nearly killed everything and it all bounced back almost imediately. By way of comparison, the plants I kept on soil fertilizer never came back and I ended up chopping them off at the roots. Coco coir will be the medium in those as well. |
#5
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pvc/vinyl fence posts and caps are what you are after for NFT. As far as companion growing I think that is more for soil growing than hydroponics.
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#6
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Another option is to use the 4 inch ADS tubing found by the P.V.C. tubing (it is used for irrigation), and either cut it longways in half to make 2 pieces or just cut out what you need along the top. It runs about $8 for a 10 foot piece. If you need it wider you can get 6 or 8 inch P.V.C. tubing from a pluming supply house. It's a little more expensive though, the 6 inch wide tubing I got here ran about $1.78 a foot. Quote:
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Last edited by GpsFrontier; 01-16-2010 at 10:15 PM. |
#7
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What nutrients are best for use with coco coir?
Gps mentioned the GH Flora series. Anyone agree or disagree with that? |
#8
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I could be wrong but as far as the hybrid NFT system , I was basically picturing the regular trash bags with as much growing medium as you wanted in them. Tie it closed, make a bunch of holes in the bottom so it can wick up the nutrient solution, then lay the bags in the rain gutters with the holes on the bottom of the gutters, making sure it is situated so that it's sturdy and wont fall out. Then make a small hole in the top to place the plant in. |
#9
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Thought I would post what I have found out so far about adding calcium for tomato's.
Some forms of tomatoes are notoriously heavier calcium feeders than others. Heirlooms in Hydro, are typically more heavy on the Ca feeding. If you have a greenhouse hybrid, they are typically less heavy feeders on the Ca. Since Calcium and Magnesium are important in allowing the uptake of the other ingredients, you want to make sure you supplement the plants needs in those areas. Calcium effects the plant's ability to uptake all sorts of nutrients. This is why it's recommended to supplement with Calcium when growing plants that consume a lot of it (such as tomatoes). You most likely won't be able to pinpoint a Calcium deficiency on the plant, because it can appear as a plethora of other deficiencies. Nutrition in Hydroponics is a building block philosophy. Once you have low concentrations of one element, the rest react differently to other elements, and this can start a chain of lockout. There are CaMg supplements on the market and they would be the best way to specifically add Ca/Mg without raising the concentrations of other nutrients. General Hydroponics makes one called CaMg+ that runs about $15 for quart. Starting low and working up, like 5ml/gallon. Then if you notice a need for more, add more. until you find the zone that's right for them. I haven't looked into other manufactures of this supplement though I'm sure their are many. As for the dolomite, I have not had time to find out much more about it. Although I do have a few of concerns with it. First, I'm not sure if it's water soluble or not. If it's not completely water soluble the plants wont be able to use it. Soil nutrients generally breakdown/biodegrade in soil slowly converting it into a water soluble nutrient. But without the soil to break it down, it would need to be water soluble to begin with. Second, if you do use it, I would not add it directly to the growing medium. But rather use it as an additive to the nutrient solution instead. There would just be no good way to control the amount and concentrations. If you didn't get the exact amount right from the start you can add way to much, possibly doing more damage to the plants than good. And because as it dissolves you would be making a higher concentration of it in the nutrient solution with every cycle, resulting in a constantly changing concentration of it. If you just add it in the nutrient solution directly you wont have either problem. Also if there is a problem with it you don't need to change all your growing medium, just the solution. Lastly, I'm not sure what it would do to would PH levels. In the description on the link it says "Corrects Soil PH." This tells me it's not pH neutral, and I would fear that you will be constantly trying to adjust the pH. Last edited by GpsFrontier; 01-19-2010 at 04:29 AM. |
#10
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The General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients is pretty popular and seems to contain a fair amount of calcium.
Any suggestions on using the Flora series with coco coir? |
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#12
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interesting and educational post
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